U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice, military apologizes Options

[Jim]

U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice; military apologizes

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A soldier used the Quran -- Islam's holy book -- for target practice, forcing the chief U.S. commander in Baghdad to issue a formal apology on Saturday.

Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Hammond, commander of U.S. forces in Baghdad, flanked by leaders from Radhwaniya in the western outskirts of Baghdad, apologized for the staff sergeant who was a sniper section leader assigned to the headquarters of the 64th Armored Regiment. He also read a letter of apology by the shooter.

It was the first time the incident -- which tested the relationship between U.S.-backed Sunni militiamen and the military -- was made public since it was discovered May 11.

"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."

Another military official kissed a Quran and presented it as "a humble gift" to the tribal leaders.

The soldier, whose name was not released, shot at a Quran on May 9, villagers said. The Quran used in the incident was discovered two days later, according to the military.

Hammond also read from the shooter's letter: "I sincerely hope that my actions have not diminished the partnership that our two nations have developed together. ... My actions were shortsighted, very reckless and irresponsible, but in my heart [the actions] were not malicious."


A tribal leader said "the criminal act by U.S. forces" took place at a shooting range at the Radhwaniya police station. After the shooters left, an Iraqi policeman found a target marked in the middle of the bullet-riddled Quran.

Copies of the pictures of the Quran obtained by CNN show multiple bullet holes and an expletive scrawled on one of its pages.

A military investigation found the shooter guilty and relieved him of duty; he will be redeployed to the United States for reassignment away from the 1st Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, a U.S. official said.

"The actions of one soldier were nothing more than criminal behavior," Hammond said. "I've come to this land to protect you, to support you -- not to harm you -- and the behavior of this soldier was nothing short of wrong and unacceptable."


http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05...uran/index.html

[MagnaCarta]

So how was the apology recieved? What, if any, fallout remains from this incident? Inquiring minds want to know...lol.

[Jim]

So how was the apology recieved? What, if any, fallout remains from this incident? Inquiring minds want to know...lol.

Good question Magna. The article doesnt say

Frankly, I have mixed feelings about it but am glad the Commander is showing some initiative.

I think that this type of action is long overdue and that the Military (at least some battle groups) need special education on the who is the enemy. Seems to me that far too many soldiers look at this just like the extremists, that it is a religious war or war against Islam. It is not. It makes me wonder just what propoganda exactly is the military feeding them before they put them out on the battle front?

The occupation of Iraq had little to do with terrorism itself, although it has now become the terrorist training grounds of the world thanks to Pres. Bush.

Soldiers need to understand that they are fighting an insurgency (low level guerilla war) not a religion or a monolithic group of religious zealot terrorist thugs. There are about 26 known terror and insurgent groups in Iraq alone since the invasion and dismantling of the Iraqi army. Some are riding the coat tails of religion and many more are political dissidents and insurgent fighters (formerly Iraqi military).

Shooting up a Quran is like me putting up a Bible and using it for target practice. Its very symbolic of underlying intentions (be it an individual or campaign).

[MagnaCarta]

Good question Magna. The article doesnt say

Frankly, I have mixed feelings about it but am glad the Commander is showing some initiative.

I think that this type of action is long overdue and that the Military (at least some battle groups) need special education on the who is the enemy. Seems to me that far too many soldiers look at this just like the extremists, that it is a religious war or war against Islam. It is not. It makes me wonder just what propoganda exactly is the military feeding them before they put them out on the battle front?

The occupation of Iraq had little to do with terrorism itself, although it has now become the terrorist training grounds of the world thanks to Pres. Bush.

Soldiers need to understand that they are fighting an insurgency (low level guerilla war) not a religion or a monolithic group of religious zealot terrorist thugs. There are about 26 known terror and insurgent groups in Iraq alone since the invasion and dismantling of the Iraqi army. Some are riding the coat tails of religion and many more are political dissidents and insurgent fighters (formerly Iraqi military).

Shooting up a Quran is like me putting up a Bible and using it for target practice. Its very symbolic of underlying intentions (be it an individual or campaign).

Human nature being equal and all, it could just as easily been a bible used by Muslims. You might think, but Muslims would never disrespect a holy book that way...but that is the point. This soldier is only acting from his own ignorance and disrespect. Lots of humans fall into that category.

Doesn't help that religion IS mixed up in politics and war.

[Rhoda]

Let's not forget this item from the 'Boys will be Children' file.

osted: May 18, 2005
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com



While Muslims have responded with deadly outrage to the now-retracted report by Newsweek of alleged Quran desecration by U.S. interrogators, there was little outcry three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper. Catholic priests in the church marking the spot where Jesus was believed to have been born said that during the five-week siege, Palestinians tore up some Bibles for toilet paper and removed many valuable sacramental objects, according to a May 15, 2002, report by the Washington Times.

Newsweek is under fire for a report in its May 9 edition that sparked protests and rioting across the Muslim world resulting in 17 dead, scores injured, relief buildings burned down and a setback to years of coalition-building against terrorists.

[Honu]

It makes me wonder just what propoganda exactly is the military feeding them before they put them out on the battle front?

It is repeatedly drilled into the troops' heads that the enemy isn't Islam and it isn't the Iraqi people. Unfortunately some numbskulls just don't get the message. Some immature idiot thought it would be "funny" to use a Quran to practice his sniper skills and never thought for a second about the consequences. I'll bet right now he wishes he had used a copy of Newsweek instead. I also have no doubt this incident is the topic of some mandatory training for troops in Iraq.

[Geshtinnanna]

Sheesh. He just wasted valuable bullets. How dare he.

*complete sarcasm and wonders what his mother would think.

[Dumuzi]

Oh how dare he?

He was shooting at a Qur'an instead of shooting at humans like the rest of the army.

[Jim]

Human nature being equal and all, it could just as easily been a bible used by Muslims.

But it isnt

[Jim]

It is repeatedly drilled into the troops' heads that the enemy isn't Islam and it isn't the Iraqi people. Unfortunately some numbskulls just don't get the message. Some immature idiot thought it would be "funny" to use a Quran to practice his sniper skills and never thought for a second about the consequences. I'll bet right now he wishes he had used a copy of Newsweek instead. I also have no doubt this incident is the topic of some mandatory training for troops in Iraq.

Good insight Honu.

[Geshtinnanna]

But it isnt

You have a point. I don't think I have ever heard of a Muslim desecrating the bible.

[Rhoda]

So no one read my contribution to this discussion?

Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.

[Rhoda]

Then there is this:

December 06, 2006 TWO Muslim students have been expelled from an Islamic school in Melbourne for urinating and spitting on a Bible and setting it on fire.

The explosive incident has forced the East Preston Islamic College to call in a senior imam to tell its 650 Muslim students that the Bible and Christianity must be respected. Anxious teachers at the school have also petitioned principal Shaheem Doutie, expressing "grave concern" about an "inculcation of hatred and radical attitudes towards non-Muslims" at the school, including towards non-Muslim teachers.

The Bible desecration took place last week at a school camp held near Bacchus Marsh, about 50km west of Melbourne, attended by 33 teenage Muslim boys ranging in age from Year7 to Year 10.

A school report of the incident, obtained by The Australian, says it happened late at night and involved three students and another two watching.

"The main perpetrator (a Year 7 student) urinated on the Holy Bible, tore some pages from the Holy Book and burnt them then finally spat on the Holy Book," the report says.

The second boy, from Year 9, "tore pages from the Holy Book and burnt them", while a third student, from Year 7, "tore pages from the Holy Bible and then he rolled it up like a cigarette and pretended to smoke it".

The boys come from a variety of ethnic Muslim backgrounds -- one is believed to be an Albanian/Malaysian, another Lebanese and another Indonesian.

Mr Doutie, whose school receives about $3.9 million in state and federal government funding each year, told The Australian yesterday that both he and the school community were appalled by the Bible desecration and that he had expelled the first two boys and suspended the third.

In a letter to all staff on Monday, Mr Doutie wrote: "The school unconditionally apologises for this horrible act as conducted by some illiterate and ignorant students while under the care of EPIC teachers.

"We regard the desecration of the Bible in a very serious light and therefore we have taken serious action against the offenders.

"The Bible is an important book both for non-Muslims and Muslims and should be treated as a holy book by all religions."

Mr Doutie said he did not believe that the boys realised the significance of their act.

But to ensure it did not happen again he had called in the assistant imam of the Newport Mosque, Oman Haouli, to tell the students that the Bible was a sacred book. "My lesson to them was to respect their neighbours and respect all religions," Mr Haouli said yesterday.

But the desecration incident has shaken the nerves of the school's teachers, about half of whom are non-Muslim.

A petition signed by 22 teachers expressed "anguish and dismay at the grave incident of the desecration of the Holy Bible".

"This whole incident implies a deep hatred inculcated in the students towards the Christians/non-Muslim teachers," it says.

The petition said there had been "previous incidents of students misbehaving towards non-Muslim teachers".

It called on the school to "take steps to rectify this explosive situation" to ensure the safety of teachers.

Mr Doutie said the school had tried to contact the parents of the expelled boys to find out why they had desecrated the Bible. But he said the school had not received a response.

EPIC is an eight-year-old primary and secondary school in Melbourne's north that caters mostly to the children of working-class immigrant Somali and Lebanese families.

The Bible desecration comes at a time of heightened tension among Australia's 300,000-member Islamic community, many of whom believe their religion is being unfairly discriminated against because of terrorism fears.

Many Muslims remain angry about the public humiliation suffered by their spiritual leader, the mufti Taj Din al-Hilali, after the Sheik likened female rape victims to pieces of meat who brought the attacks on themselves.

[Geshtinnanna]

So no one read my contribution to this discussion?

Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.

Sorry I missed that!
You are right. Muslims can be just as dumb as Christians. I agree.

[Rhoda]

And from the Wall Street Journal

The Bible in Saudi Arabia may get a person killed, arrested, or deported. In September 1993, Sadeq Mallallah, 23, was beheaded in Qateef on a charge of apostasy for owning a Bible. The State Department's annual human rights reports detail the arrest and deportation of many Christian worshipers every year. Just days before Crown Prince Abdullah met President Bush last month, two Christian gatherings were stormed in Riyadh. Bibles and crosses were confiscated, and will be incinerated. (The Saudi government does not even spare the Quran from desecration. On Oct. 14, 2004, dozens of Saudi men and women carried copies of the Quran as they protested in support of reformers in the capital, Riyadh. Although they carried the Qurans in part to protect themselves from assault by police, they were charged by hundreds of riot police, who stepped on the books with their shoes, according to one of the protesters.)

[Jim]

Then there is this:

The Bible desecration took place last week at a school camp held near Bacchus Marsh, about 50km west of Melbourne, attended by 33 teenage Muslim boys ranging in age from Year7 to Year 10.

The second boy, from Year 9,

LOL What kind of joke is this Rhoda.

Did you read their age???

Childish antics are much different than adult intent.

This does not compare to what many ADULT Christians think they can do to a quran.

So no one read my contribution to this discussion?

Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.

"Islamic" terrorists? Thats propoganda

[Jim]

Let's not forget this item from the 'Boys will be Children' file.

osted: May 18, 2005
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com



While Muslims have responded with deadly outrage to the now-retracted report by Newsweek of alleged Quran desecration by U.S. interrogators, there was little outcry three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper. Catholic priests in the church marking the spot where Jesus was believed to have been born said that during the five-week siege, Palestinians tore up some Bibles for toilet paper and removed many valuable sacramental objects, according to a May 15, 2002, report by the Washington Times.

Newsweek is under fire for a report in its May 9 edition that sparked protests and rioting across the Muslim world resulting in 17 dead, scores injured, relief buildings burned down and a setback to years of coalition-building against terrorists.

Here, let me break this article down for you.

The incident here had nothing to do with Islam. They were originally reported as "Palestinian" militants.

From March to April of 2002, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) carried out "Operation Defensive Shield" in the West Bank. As a part of these large-scale military operations, Bethlehem was advanced upon in a declared effort to root out militants. On April 1, 2002, Israeli tanks surrounded Bethlehem. The next day, Israeli military planes, tanks and troops entered the city, sparking heavy criticism due to the sensitive nature of the site. Approximately 200 Palestinians--including a number of militants--fled the advancing Israeli forces into the Church of the Nativity. During the siege, the Church bell-ringer and nine Palestinians inside the Church were killed and many more wounded. A monk was also killed in his residence by indirect fire during the siege. By early May, Bethlehem was the last West Bank city where the Israeli forces were still present in the wake of "Operation Defensive Shield." A large fire was accidentally started during the siege. According to a PBS documentary, an IDF flare was responsible. Frontline The Israeli Army left only after the full evacuation of the Church of the Nativity on May 22. At least one monk had been trapped in the basilica with the Palestinians. (Source)

Many of them were Christian (including one Monk who was trapped with them) and all news articles at the time indicated they were Palestinian militants NOT Islamic terrorists.

Among the people still present in the Church in early May 2002 were 39 Palestinian men wanted by the Israeli army, as well as various civilians, clerics, policemen, the Governor of Bethlehem Muhammad al-Madani, and 11 people who caught the Israelis by surprise and ran into the Church with needed supplies on 2 May - ten foreign activists of the International Solidarity Movement and Carolyn Cole, a photographer of the Los Angeles Times. Apart from the fire the damage to the Church was negligible, although it was left strewn with used toiletries and dirty pots and pans, and also reeked of urine due to the unavailability of toilets inside the basilica. (Source)

So your article is lying to you, misrepresenting the event and a poor try at Demonizing Islam rather than telling the truth.

A perfect example of media deception and a display of bigotry that jumps to the erroneous conclusion that all Arabs (Palestinians) are Muslims.

Furthermore, they were under seige from April 1 until May 22. They had no fricken running water, food, electricity....or almost 2 months! They were in a desparate situation. Im not suprised to hear desperate people doing desperate things. I even new a marine who during Vietnam had to drink his own urine because they were pinned down for so long.

So your attempt to slander Islam is disingenuous and to say the least deceptive.

This seige incident cannot be compared to what people do to the Quran.

Nice try, but you know you cant fool me that easy dear

Worldnetdaily is a far cry from a credible news source. There are NO credible sources out there that have reported such an incident.

[thalassa]

It is repeatedly drilled into the troops' heads that the enemy isn't Islam and it isn't the Iraqi people. Unfortunately some numbskulls just don't get the message. Some immature idiot thought it would be "funny" to use a Quran to practice his sniper skills and never thought for a second about the consequences. I'll bet right now he wishes he had used a copy of Newsweek instead. I also have no doubt this incident is the topic of some mandatory training for troops in Iraq.

or he could be perfectly happy that he is now on the short bus out of Iraq, back home, and probably out of the military...

I've seen more than a few people PURPOSELY pot or coke their way out of the military, he probably just didn't realize the international carp-storm he was creating...or that he's in ALOT more trouble than he thought he would be in.



(and yes, the troops have plenty of training...but their are still morons in EVERY group)

[Rhoda]

The Bible desecration took place last week at a school camp held near Bacchus Marsh, about 50km west of Melbourne, attended by 33 teenage Muslim boys ranging in age from Year7 to Year 10.

These are not their ages but their grade levels. These were not children except in the legal sense.

[Jim]

These are not their ages but their grade levels. These were not children except in the legal sense.

That is not clear by the article Rhoda, but even so, they are children that would make them 11-14 years old. Has more to do with childish antagonism more than religious rivalry and warfare.