[Flower]

Salams,

Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11 who heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors.

He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.

All these events occurred only seconds before and during the jetliner strike above. And through it all, he now asks a simple question everybody should be asking? How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man's arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?

Rodriguez claims this was impossible and clearly demonstrates a controlled demolition brought down the WTC, saying "Let's see them (the government) try to wiggle out of this one."

Well, they haven't wiggled out of it because the government continues to act like Rodriguez doesn't exist, basically ignoring his statements and the fact he rescued a man burnt and bleeding from the basement explosions.

William Rodriguez is now a Muslim

(converted 2006)

WATCH ON YOU TUBE

Jeff King MIT Engineer on 9/11

May Allah rest the souls of those deceased and bring peace and justice

Ameen.

This post has been edited by Flower: 26 March 2009 - 01:28 PM

[Musa]

And what about World Trade Center Seven??? Hmmm.....

[Rhoda]

I suppose people will be going over this long after I'm dead.

Two questions.

Who do you think is responsible for the crashing of planes into the WTC and Pentagon?

Why do you think these people committed such an act?

[Musa]

Hmm...I don't know who did it

But did you ever hear of the burning of the Reichstag?

[Honu]

I have worked with explosives, including thermite, for almost thirty years and I am a currently licensed blaster. Anyone believing the twin towers or WTC 7 were prewired to cause the collapse through the use of explosives or thermite is just plain wrong.

(fyi, it took me twenty rewrites of that last word until I could come up with a word that passed the profanity filter.)

[Musa]

^I'm not sold on the conspiracy theory (cant stand that term). But I also think there is a lot that the Government is hiding. I also think there is lack of evidence to claim Osama Bin Laden was involved. I also think they have been big time covering stuff up. I also think they are they greatest benefitters of 9/11. I also think that it is very realistic that our Government would do such a thing. So all these lead me to believe only one thing..........................

But no, I'm not sold on it. I don't think we can know what DID happen but I do think we can know what did NOT happen.

This post has been edited by Musa: 26 March 2009 - 05:10 PM

[Honu]

More info about Mr. Rodriguez: http://911stories.googlepages.com/home

[Jim]

So, the government deliberately killed over 3000 of its own citizens?



Is that what this theory is stating?

Furthermore, a designated hero doesnt make him an explosives expert nor does it mean that he has some insideer knowledge that none of the rest of us have.

[Honu]

^I'm not sold on the conspiracy theory (cant stand that term). But I also think there is a lot that the Government is hiding. I also think there is lack of evidence to claim Osama Bin Laden was involved. I also think they have been big time covering stuff up. I also think they are they greatest benefitters of 9/11. I also think that it is very realistic that our Government would do such a thing. So all these lead me to believe only one thing..........................

So a government that could pull off a cover-up of this magnitude couldn't fabricate a few WMDs in Iraq after the invasion?

I don't think we can know what DID happen but I do think we can know what did NOT happen.

I have no idea what this means in the context of this discussion. Don't play word games, just state what you really think you know or don't know.

[Honu]

Furthermore, a designated hero JANITOR doesnt make him an explosives expert nor does it mean that he has some insideer knowledge that none of the rest of us have.

Fixed it for ya.

[Musa]

So, the government deliberately killed over 3000 of its own citizens?



Is that what this theory is stating?

Furthermore, a designated hero doesnt make him an explosives expert nor does it mean that he has some insideer knowledge that none of the rest of us have.

Do you really doubt the Government would kill 3000 people? Didn't they kill thousands of soldiers by sending them over to Iraq? Didn't they cause the deaths of over 800,000 Iraqis? America has killed off many of its citizens throughout history, and there are well documented cases of false flag operations. In 1962, the Joints Chiefs of Staffs drafted "Operation Northwood," which called for the American Government to stage attacks, and then blame Cuba. The goal: "to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere."
Journalist James Bamford summarized Operation Northwoods in his April 24, 2001 book Body of Secrets:

"Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war."

JFK did not approve it. Many others did. Do you doubt the immorality of George W Bush?
Is it really that unrealistic?

This post has been edited by Musa: 26 March 2009 - 06:11 PM

[Musa]

I have no idea what this means in the context of this discussion. Don't play word games, just state what you really think you know or don't know.

I do know that Osama Bin Laden was not calling the shots. That's not to say I like the guy. I'd consider he may be working with the CIA. Who knows? But my friend's brother kept all the newspapers from September 2001, and it's quite ridiculous. They brought up the idea that it may be Osama Bin Laden...others doubted it. Then randomly the next day, the Government was positive about it. The main evidence used today is a supposed testimony. Yet the testimony at that time was that Osama Bin Laden was NOT apart of the attacks. So why would he deny taking part in the attacks, and then admit to it? And why would he deny it in the first place? Wasn't his goal to send a message? Plus, to date, Osama Bin Laden has not been indicted for 9/11. Check it out for yourself. Go to the FBI most wanted terrorist page. No where will you find 9/11.

I don't rule out the SLIM possibility that it MIGHT have been Muslims. But I don't believe OBL took the role he is accused of.

This post has been edited by Musa: 26 March 2009 - 06:16 PM

[Masood]

Journalist James Bamford summarized Operation Northwoods in his April 24, 2001 book Body of Secrets:

You'll notice the plan did not call for a single death of any Americans.

[Masood]

So a government that could pull off a cover-up of this magnitude couldn't fabricate a few WMDs in Iraq after the invasion?

Exactly. How easy would it have been to drop a container full of weapons production equipment into the desert somewhere?

I have no idea what this means in the context of this discussion. Don't play word games, just state what you really think you know or don't know.

Sort of Clintonesque, isn't it?

I'm not saying I buy into in the conspiracy theory. But I'm not saying I don't. And there is only one reasonable conclusion. But I'm not buying into it. Except when I am.

What is is really?

[Musa]

Well...here are some of the things it called for...

In Guantanamo:
(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.
(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.
(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires -- napthalene.

3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:
a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
4. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.
The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.
7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.


It doesn't seem they would have been sad if people were killed.

And what about the USS Maine?

I don't get how Muslims can doubt the Government would do it, yet believe fellow Muslims WOULD do it. Personally, I find it hard to believe any human being could do it, but I know that someone did. My bets are placed that it was probably the Government...though I'm a skeptic of any theory.

[Musa]

Sort of Clintonesque, isn't it?

I'm not saying I buy into in the conspiracy theory. But I'm not saying I don't. And there is only one reasonable conclusion. But I'm not buying into it. Except when I am.

What is is really?

I'm able to take an undecided view. Aren't I? But I do know both sides, and so I'm representing the opposing side. I'm playing devils advocate basically. I've taken the Government's side on a Muslim forum before...But yea, my leanings are against the Government...

This post has been edited by Musa: 26 March 2009 - 06:51 PM

[Masood]

I don't get how Muslims can doubt the Government would do it, yet believe fellow Muslims WOULD do it.

Oh, I don't know? Maybe it's because other Muslims tried to bring down the very same buildings 8 years earlier?

Not to mention several other surprise attacks against civilians over the past, oh, 30 years or so?

Not every attack, of course. But several of them.

[Masood]

But yea, my leanings are against the Government...

Why does that not surprise me?

[Musa]

Oh, I don't know? Maybe it's because other Muslims tried to bring down the very same buildings 8 years earlier?

Not to mention several other surprise attacks against civilians over the past, oh, 30 years or so?

Not every attack, of course. But several of them.

Maybe that only gives more a reason to believe it was the Government. If there's an attempted murder that fails, and then that person is found dead a month later, who is the court going to point their finger at? It seems a rather nonstrategic location for the supposed 'terrorists,' because it had already failed in the past. Why would they believe this time it would work?

This post has been edited by Musa: 26 March 2009 - 07:00 PM

[Masood]

BTW, for those of you who subscribe to New Scientist, they printed a great article a couple of years ago about the psychology of conspiracies. It's really an interesting read:

Lure of the Conspiracy Theories

This post has been edited by Masood: 26 March 2009 - 07:01 PM