[Musa]

So I know some of you are way older than me, and even if you don't have children, maybe you can at least think from the perspective of someone who does lol. I've gotten my parents to consent to a gap year (year off before college), and now, my goal is to convince them that I can go abroad lol. However, for them, me going away is perty scary. And to add to that, the country I wish to visit is not the ideal country in their mind. It's quite a scary thought for them. So if you had a son who wanted to travel (with a friend) to another country, how would they go about doing that in the most convincing way possible? I was thinking of printing out a detailed itinerary for a program, with info about what I would be doing, where I would be staying, safety, etc. Any tips yo?

Obviously in Islam, you cannot disobey your parents. Ugh I guess this should be in the thread for things I miss: "disobeying my parents" lol.

This post has been edited by Musa: 20 December 2008 - 05:55 PM

[Jim]

So I know some of you are way older than me, and even if you don't have children, maybe you can at least think from the perspective of someone who does lol. I've gotten my parents to consent to a gap year (year off before college), and now, my goal is to convince them that I can go abroad lol. However, for them, me going away is perty scary. And to add to that, the country I wish to visit is not the ideal country in their mind. It's quite a scary thought for them. So if you had a son who wanted to travel (with a friend) to another country, how would they go about doing that in the most convincing way possible? I was thinking of printing out a detailed itinerary for a program, with info about what I would be doing, where I would be staying, safety, etc. Any tips yo?

Obviously in Islam, you cannot disobey your parents. Ugh I guess this should be in the thread for things I miss: "disobeying my parents" lol.

The real problem is that the world is not safe for Americans. Your visit to some countries will be monitored by not only your government but theirs as well. Some countries you cant even get into with an American passport. Still some cities in certain countries can trigger a fast track to a secondary interview by Homeland Security upon your return to the US.

The best thing to do is to go to countries that are relatively safe, otherwise your parents will just shut down on the idea. It's one thing when you're an adult and another when you have parents you live with.

Do you have a part of the world you want to spend your time in?

[Musa]

The real problem is that the world is not safe for Americans. Your visit to some countries will be monitored by not only your government but theirs as well. Some countries you cant even get into with an American passport. Still some cities in certain countries can trigger a fast track to a secondary interview by Homeland Security upon your return to the US.

The best thing to do is to go to countries that are relatively safe, otherwise your parents will just shut down on the idea. It's one thing when you're an adult and another when you have parents you live with.

Do you have a part of the world you want to spend your time in?

Uhh, yes

Palestine. lol.

Ok so advantages of Palestine: I go in through Israel, and considering I'm technically Jewish as far as they are concerned, there will be no problems with the Government and all. The thing I plan on doing in Palestine frequently has volunteers from the West, and I'm pretty sure there is no danger in going. I mean, obviously there is some danger, but I think a bit of common sense erases that. I have a friend who has been there.

But unfortunately, Palestine has got a bad ting to it in the Western mind, especially to Jews lol (My parents are Jewish). I have brought up the idea, and it has not been shot down just yet. It's more of a "we'll think about it"...and in my mind, that means it's giving me some time to figure out how to minipulate it.

Now you all probably think I'm crazy. lol.

This post has been edited by Musa: 20 December 2008 - 06:21 PM

[Jim]

Uhh, yes

Palestine. lol.

Ok so advantages of Palestine: I go in through Israel, and considering I'm technically Jewish as far as they are concerned, there will be no problems with the Government and all. The thing I plan on doing in Palestine frequently has volunteers from the West, and I'm pretty sure there is no danger in going. I mean, obviously there is some danger, but I think a bit of common sense erases that. I have a friend who has been there.

But unfortunately, Palestine has got a bad ting to it in the Western mind, especially to Jews lol (My parents are Jewish). I have brought up the idea, and it has not been shot down just yet. It's more of a "we'll think about it"...and in my mind, that means it's giving me some time to figure out how to minipulate it.

Now you all probably think I'm crazy. lol.

lol.

Well, every immigration checkpoint I have gone through has the same basic procedure. You can expect to be questioned in Israel as to why you are there (as all immigration officers do in every country) and where you will be staying (including a physical address). When they catch wind of an American passport holder going to Palestine, they will have further questions. I'm not sure if they pass the info on to the US government or not, most likely they would, depedning on your answers. It probably wont matter that your Jewish unless you plan (have already applied) to immigrate to Israel under Aliyah laws.

On return, the US scans your passport in the computer and your itinerary will pop up and you can expect the same questions and if they see any details from other immigration officers (say in Israel) they will probably pull you into secondary holding for further examination.

Not trying to scare you off, but this is just how things are now, since the increase in terrorism.

There are other Arab countries that are pretty cool to visit if your interested, like, UAE, Oman, Egypt... etc

[Musa]

lol.

Well, every immigration checkpoint I have gone through has the same basic procedure. You can expect to be questioned in Israel as to why you are there (as all immigration officers do in every country) and where you will be staying (including a physical address). When they catch wind of an American passport holder going to Palestine, they will have further questions. I'm not sure if they pass the info on to the US government or not, most likely they would, depedning on your answers. It probably wont matter that your Jewish unless you plan (have already applied) to immigrate to Israel under Aliyah laws.

On return, the US scans your passport in the computer and your itinerary will pop up and you can expect the same questions and if they see any details from other immigration officers (say in Israel) they will probably pull you into secondary holding for further examination.

Not trying to scare you off, but this is just how things are now, since the increase in terrorism.

There are other Arab countries that are pretty cool to visit if your interested, like, UAE, Oman, Egypt... etc

Yeah, there are several ways around this. Most the people who I know who have gone to Palestine lie about their itinerary to security. Being Jewish, they really don't doubt you if you say you are staying with friends, and they'll ask their name and whatever, but not much further than that. Lol I have friends, one is Jewish, one is Christian, and one is Muslim (half Syrian). The Jew passed on through security. The Christian had a half hour of questioning. The Syrian had 8 hours of questioning. Equality at its finest. Anyways, I don't want to make this a political topic. But yea, your right, there are some harms to it. I'm probably going to have to lie, because if you do say you are going to Palestine, they can turn you back at their own will (despite it being legal to go to the West Bank). I'm pretty scared, because I'm an awful lier lol. But oh well.

Anyways, right now I'm focusing on my parents lol. That's my first goal. I'm planning on going to a refugee camp near Bethlehem, Al-Aida. Considering they know Bethlehem and all, I think I have a shot of actually going. Now, if I said Ramallah or Nablus or somewhere like that...they'd probably just crack up

[Jim]

haha.

Well, yeah, I can see how you would have to work on your parents a bit. I think the main thing for them will be your safety.

[Masood]

I was thinking of printing out a detailed itinerary for a program, with info about what I would be doing, where I would be staying, safety, etc. Any tips yo?

With my children I would want all those things, but more importantly a proposal that outlines what he/she intends to achieve there, what it would do for the enrichment of themselves or others.

But to be honest with you, if my son or daughter proposed a year abroad in Palestine, it would be a very difficult sale even if the proposal were pretty solid.

[jaba]

So I know some of you are way older than me, and even if you don't have children, maybe you can at least think from the perspective of someone who does lol. I've gotten my parents to consent to a gap year (year off before college), and now, my goal is to convince them that I can go abroad lol. However, for them, me going away is perty scary. And to add to that, the country I wish to visit is not the ideal country in their mind. It's quite a scary thought for them. So if you had a son who wanted to travel (with a friend) to another country, how would they go about doing that in the most convincing way possible? I was thinking of printing out a detailed itinerary for a program, with info about what I would be doing, where I would be staying, safety, etc. Any tips yo?

Obviously in Islam, you cannot disobey your parents. Ugh I guess this should be in the thread for things I miss: "disobeying my parents" lol.

I thought I heard you say you have been to the middle east before, in fact I'm pretty sure I could quote you on it

[Coexist]

Yeah I wouldn't let my kids go. There's nothing they could say to change my mind. Not unless it were more peaceful by the time they were old enough to ask.

[Musa]

I thought I heard you say you have been to the middle east before, in fact I'm pretty sure I could quote you on it

Yea I have been to the middle east. I've been WITH them though, not on my own. Plus when we went, we met with people we knew. It's different. They've been to Palestine with me, but I want to go and volunteer/study/live there, etc. We've been to other countries around Israel, and Turkey.

I think I'll at least have a chance, because they've seen the West Bank (or I shall say Palestinian Areas, since we spent a lot of time in Arab villages within Israel) is not as unsafe as it's made out to be. Most of the people are extremely hospitable. The Israelis actions only effect certain parts (mainly the northern West Bank the most). Checkpoints are a pain, but not a reason not to go.

But lets take the place out of the equation. Lets say you have a son who wants to go to...Poland. It's not unsafe, but they do speak another language, you don't know tooooo much about it, etc. How would he be able to convince you (if possible...my parents are easily convinced sometimes ) lol

This post has been edited by Musa: 21 December 2008 - 09:05 AM

[Jim]

I think the place can't really be taken out of the equation if your talking about safety. Some places are more dangerous than others.

[jaba]

Yeah I wouldn't let my kids go. There's nothing they could say to change my mind. Not unless it were more peaceful by the time they were old enough to ask.

It depends where in the middle east, I would say yes to certain countries

[jimdi]

It depends where in the middle east, I would say yes to certain countries

Am I missing something? Once away who's in control?

How many American Mothers knew their sons were Somalia bound?

[jaba]

If Farah wanted to go to Syria for the summer while still in highschool it would be OK, because there is my husbands family there, her uncle is in Saudi if she chooses to go there as well. As for when she's legally an adult ( I mean Canadian law here), then she can go where she wants (well not palestine, since she would be banned from ever going back to Syria, their rules, not mine)

[Honu]

Who pays for this junket of yours?

If you are paying and are above the age of 18 you can go wherever you want to as far as I am concerned. If you expect Mommy and Daddy to foot the bill expect them to have some input, if they are good parents, as to where they will fund your journeys.

As far as you going to Palestine, I'm sure Jonathan Walker Lindh thought his little trip to Afghanistan would be a good experience also.

[Jim]

Well, let's face it, Palestine is not a place people (even governments) know for its Universities or Tourist attractions.

Most people, even the King of Jordan, educate in other countries on issues in the Middle East before going there.

Typically, when people visit on vacation, they are going to Egypt, UAE, maybe Syria, Oman or Saudi (for hajj). When they educate, its usually Saudi, Egypt, Jordan or Syria.

[Cyra]

Ok, just my 2 cents (btw, when did they take the "cents" symbol off the keyboard?)...

Yeah...uh huh , I'm listening...uuuuuh, yeah, NO!!!

[Musa]

Who pays for this junket of yours?

If you are paying and are above the age of 18 you can go wherever you want to as far as I am concerned. If you expect Mommy and Daddy to foot the bill expect them to have some input, if they are good parents, as to where they will fund your journeys.

As far as you going to Palestine, I'm sure Jonathan Walker Lindh thought his little trip to Afghanistan would be a good experience also.

Well, I would pay for most of it. However, that does not mean I do not need there support. It is not Islamically permissible to disobey one's parents, nor do I want to end good relations with them...

I'm also sure that Frank Phel thought his little trip to Italy would be a good experience also

I know many people who have gone, and safely returned from Palestine. Also, I've recently met a Palestinian in my city who is here until June (when Insha'Allah I'm hoping to go to Palestine). So my parents spoke to her and all, and they are a bit more okay with it now because of speaking to her. But now with this stuff in Gaza, eh they got a bit more worried lol...

Ok, just my 2 cents (btw, when did they take the "cents" symbol off the keyboard?)...

Yeah...uh huh , I'm listening...uuuuuh, yeah, NO!!!

When did they have a cents symbol? Before I was born maybe? lol

Well my parents are pretty close-minded with most stuff, but they know that I get the things I really want or am morally persuaded to do, so they'd rather show respect by listening, than just shooting it down, cause that means I'll push for it harder lol.

But to be honest, I'm really quite a manipulative kid. LoL

[Coexist]

With all that's going on now, you still want to go?

[spike]

If my child lied to me like you are intentionally planning to do and sought such dishonest manipulations of my good will, money, and emotions, I would cut off all funds in a heartbeat. Get wherever you want to go on your dime and without my help. Then you won't have to lie and manipulate and you would be responsible for yourself and your actions. Sheesh! Adults here are actually condoning a kid lying and manipulating. Is that what Islam teaches?

And, sonny, you are not Jewish. You have Jewish heritage and Jewish parents but you have chosen another religion so you are Muslim. It is deception of the worst kind to pretend to be something you are not in order to make gains and not be proud of the choice you made religiously.