Critical Thinking Skills, My synopsis of debates within the general community. Options

[Jim]

The following is my personal synopsis of many of my debates over the years with a large number of my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters. I put this in this section because it is an issue that I hear many reverts discussing in relation to born Muslims.

Critical thinking skills and comprehension are two things grossly lacking.

To the extent that I wonder if in many countries they teach them to kids in school. Here in the US we are taught this at a very early age.

However, most of my debates with fellow Muslims reveal a serious lack of Critical thinking skills, comprehension and tolerance and understanding of opposing views. Seems when the conversation turns to anything analytical many bros and sis resort to these things, many of them in the same session:

Totalitarianism - Forcing their views on you

Blank stare - Complete lack of willingness to understand, comprehend and repeat your position and ignore anything you say after that as well as a complete breakdown in the ability to analyze your argument.

Uncooperative - Complete inability to explain exactly where you are wrong in your assertions and willingness to spend the time to explain their positions to help you understand.

Arrogance - Thinking they are better than you Islamically since they come from a so called "islamic culture" however un-islamic their opinion may be, or are from a certain madh'hab, follow a certain scholar or group of scholars.

Accusation - Calling you racist, kafir, fasiq, munafiq, other choice names to describe your personality or position

Abuse - Treating you differently (bitterness and cold) well after the discussion has ended and there is no more need for debate because positions have been defined. Trenches have bee dug in and eventually you are ignored.

Of course, this can be found in any religion and in western society. However, I see it more of an acute problem when dealing with my fellow Muslims who were born into the faith who are from other countries.

[Rhoda]

This is also a pretty good description of what happens when we kaffirs try to discuss with some Muslims.

[toonie]

This is the same way that nationalist talk about how great their country/people are. For a lot of individuals out there Islam is not just a religion they believe in but it encompasses their whole identity and heritage. More often then not you’ll notice that their form of practices are based largely on ethnic and cultural practices {what their forefathers did they will now do b/c that’s how it’s done} rather then any real thought on whether or not this is a real Islamic practice or not. I tend to avoid such people.

[Medion]

Maybe I should pay more attention in my Critical Thinking class...

[Jim]

Maybe I should pay more attention in my Critical Thinking class...

lol Medion.

I think one can really see a prime example of the effect of this in certain issues. More particularly, it is an inability to weigh out the ultimate and lasting consequences of ones words or actions and choose the better course. Also, it goes to picking your fights or causes wisely rather than knee jerk ractions to events.

Take the Danish cartoons of Muhammad for example. A cartoon drawn in a "non-Muslim" country by a "non-Muslim". Riots broke out all over the world in "Muslim" countries. "Muslims", their businesses, homes, etc., were attacked.

Using critical thinking skills, what is the best recourse for a cartoon drawn in a non-muslim land by a non-muslim? To become violent? To attack other Muslims? To destroy property?

Obviouslyly not because that would ultimately play into the hands of the cartoonist and his readers and the negatively impact the minds of billions of people around the world that know little or nothing about Islam or Muslims. Furthermore, you are harming Muslims physically (not just their reputaion).

So, what is the best course of action long term?

To add this up and get an answer we have to consider some things:

1. Muslims cant expect non-Muslims to act with the sensitivity of Muslims.
2. Non-Muslims will act like non-Muslims
3. It was in a non-Muslim country that this was done.
4. It was a non-Muslim who did it, not a Muslim.
5. Violence plays into the hands of his readers.
6. Violence and riots negatively impact the reputation of Muslims worldwide in the eyes of people who might not know better.
7. What would the Prophet have done if a non-Muslim did this in "his" land, not a Muslim land.
8. How can we change the minds of civilized people to show that we (and our Prophet) was not like what the cartoon represents?

These are some things we must add up.

In the case of the cartoons, many folks did not think that this was necessary and ultimately played into the hands of anti-islam people, harmed the reputation of Muslims, and harmed fellow muslims in their own countries (people who had nothing to do with the act).

They resorted to:

Violence
Abuse
Totalitarianism (in an attempt to bully a change)

[koroigetsuga]

This is also a pretty good description of what happens when we kaffirs try to discuss with some Muslims.

Christians are Ahlul-Kitab NOT kaffirs.....a much better title than the christian "infidel" which btw the crusaders came up with

[HoЯus™]

We never did that in class

[Dumuzi]

I was born Muslim and I disagree with you, therefor you are wrong!

in relation to born Muslims.

We are all born Muslim

[Jim]

We are all born Muslim

You know what I mean

[fatima2003]

so does this mean you think i am irrational because i come form a muslim country?

this seems to be somewhat of an attack on us muslims born in muslim countries......

you know we are not bad people.....

yes there is culture which comes into play even (and maybe especially) for reverts to islam as well...

culture plays a part in all our lives whether you like it or not or realize it or not........

and i have seen reverts calling someone a kuffar as well.....lol

the meaning of kuffar is someone who hides the truth btw......... so when someone fully knows the truth and then tries to hide this truth from the eyes of the people they are kuffar.......this is not a word that should be used of someone who is ignorant of the truth nor is it a word that should ever be thrown around.... it is a very strong word and it is misused a lot in this day and age, I agree.......

in my opinion we need to learn how to not respond out of emotion (every single human on the face of the earth!!!) and respond always rationally and if we feel we are becoming emotional then we should bow out of any conversation.....

my opinion

(and yes we arabs do have a tendencey to be more emotive than others..... but this is not a bad thing it just is....better than being emotionally dead.....)

This post has been edited by fatema_shia: Apr 19 2008, 01:45 PM

[Geshtinnanna]

so does this mean you think i am irrational because i come form a muslim country?

I think people judge you on YOU. If they think you are irrational, it might be of your words and not your religion.

[Dumuzi]

You know what I mean

Haha, yes. I was just being a smartypants

[Jim]

Haha, yes. I was just being a smartypants

hehe.

We all have our momentary lapse of reason

[Jim]

so does this mean you think i am irrational because i come form a muslim country?

this seems to be somewhat of an attack on us muslims born in muslim countries......

No, that is not the intent of the post. However, there is a trend among people from certain regions as well as among born Muslims and among reverts.

Many say reverts are too over zealous.

Many everts, say many born Muslims are not zealous enough.

These are generalizations, not 100% rule for everyone in those groupings.

My post is my experience in the community and what myself and many others who have reverted have seen, even some born Muslims have agreed with my points here.

Its not an indictment of born Muslims or Muslims from various countries. Just an observation based on many experiences and is evident in how the Ummah reacts and deals with its problems today locally and in world affairs. I even gave a prime example of my point.

[fatima2003]

so does this mean you think i am irrational because i come form a muslim country?

this seems to be somewhat of an attack on us muslims born in muslim countries......

you know we are not bad people.....

yes there is culture which comes into play even (and maybe especially) for reverts to islam as well...

culture plays a part in all our lives whether you like it or not or realize it or not........

and i have seen reverts calling someone a kuffar as well.....lol

the meaning of kuffar is someone who hides the truth btw......... so when someone fully knows the truth and then tries to hide this truth from the eyes of the people they are kuffar.......this is not a word that should be used of someone who is ignorant of the truth nor is it a word that should ever be thrown around.... it is a very strong word and it is misused a lot in this day and age, I agree.......

in my opinion we need to learn how to not respond out of emotion (every single human on the face of the earth!!!) and respond always rationally and if we feel we are becoming emotional then we should bow out of any conversation.....

my opinion

(and yes we arabs do have a tendencey to be more emotive than others..... but this is not a bad thing it just is....better than being emotionally dead.....)

brother Jim did you have any response to my reply????

[Jim]

Look above your last post sis

[fatima2003]

Look above your last post sis

oops sorry akhi...... we must have posted at the same time....lol

[fatima2003]

I agree with your descripiton of the incident concerning the cartoons to a large degree, i also said that i agreed everyone needed to learn how to respond in the best of manners.....

.... but the post was much much more general then the cartoons or you would have only posted the wrings about the cartoons.............. this i never disagreed with,

I disagree with your generalizations about born muslims form other countries and your insinuation that we only practice islam according to culture and not according to islam.... which to some degree I agree with, (in countries other than my own of course....) then i qualified my statement by saying reverts often do the same......bring in western culture and western ideals into their practice of islam.....this is also wrong.......

i also agreed with your statement about the use of the word kuffar and that it is often misused and thrown around at people liek it has no meaning other than a cuss word or something and this is wrong however i myself have seen reverts do the same....... so you cant just say it is us and not you too.....

[Rhoda]

better than being emotionally dead.....)

Well, just because people don't chant and rant and burn in effigy isn't exactly evidence that they are emotionally dead, you know.

It may be evidence that they have more control of their emotions than the chanters and ranters.

[Rhoda]

I came across this definition of the divide between Muslims and the "West".

I'm interested in what people think.

(Please note that you have no idea what I think. Therefore, belay the name calling, please)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------We. Islamic ethics are dualistic. Islam has one set of rules for Muslims and another set of rules for the kafirs.
Kafir logic is based upon Aristotelian law of non-contradiction. If two things contradict each other, then at least one of them must be false. Islamic logic is dualistic. The Koran establishes the logic of Islam. The Koran of Mecca contradicts the Koran of Medina, but since both Korans are perfect, both sides of the contradiction are true. Dualistic logic allows two contradictory “facts” to be true at the same time. Islamic logic is built on contradiction.
Allah is the god of duality and submission. Islamic civilization is based upon the principles of duality and submission. Our civilization is based upon the principles of unitary ethics and unitary logic.