Would Jesus Want To Convert Jews?, Jewish/Evangelical Alliance Options

[Jim]

I found this an interesting article.


Would Jesus Want To Convert Jews?

A serious blow was dealt to the Jewish-evangelical alliance with the publication in Friday's New York Times of a full page ad by the World Evangelical Alliance - representing hundreds of evangelical Churches, organizations, and leaders, some being among the most prominent in the country - affirming their intention to proselytize Jews.

The ad said, "The most loving and Scriptural expression of our friendship toward Jewish people, and to anyone we call friend, is to forthrightly share the love of G-d in the person of Jesus Christ.... We recognize that it is good and right for those with specialized knowledge, history, and skills to use these gifts to introduce individuals to the Messiah, and that includes those ministries specifically directed to the Jewish people." Oh brother, here we go again. Is this really what we all need right now? Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are slowly building an army of non-believers to ridicule global faith. Fundamentalist Muslims who assail both Judaism and Christianity are digging in against the West. And a secular and exploitative culture in America is slowly eroding the dignity of women and the innocence of children. And just when we thought that Christians and Jews could really work together to reverse this tide, we get this: Christians who profess to be the Jewish people's friends by devoting themselves to the end of their existence as Jews.

NEXT MONTH in my old stomping ground in Oxford I will be engaging in a debate as to whether belief in the divinity of Jesus is compatible with Judaism. It is not. Period. It never was, and it never will be. But that has never stopped us Jews from loving and respecting our Christian brothers and sisters and the great faith they practice. The time has come for them to once and for all declare their reciprocity by refraining from ever directly targeting Jews for conversion.

This is what Jesus would want and says so with ferocious directness, going so far as condemn all who attempt to pry Jews away from Judaism: "Whoever goes against the smallest of the laws of Moses, teaching men to do the same, will be named least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who keeps the Law of Moses, teaching others to keep them, will be named great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19).

The Jewish community must respectfully but forcefully respond to our Christian brothers and sisters as to why proselytizing Jews is a bad idea.

IT'S BAD for Christianity because it betrays the tragic fact that after thousands of years of persecuting Jews, many Christians still have not evolved enough to respect the Jewish faith. It's bad for Christians because if they reject the Jewishness of Jesus they will never fully understand his teachings or his life. It's bad for Jewish-Christian relations because, for all their immense support for the State of Israel, most Jews are still suspicious of evangelicals precisely because many treat Judaism as an unsaved, subordinate faith. And it's bad for the Western world whose basic fabric is based on Judeo-Christian values, which will of necessity suffer if the groups who promote these values neutralize each other through unnecessary conflict.

But rather than merely lamenting this new effort by Christian to proselytize Jews, I believe that we might see it as an opportunity. Time magazine recently identified the new effort by scholars to re-Judaize Jesus as one of the 10 most important new ideas in the world.

Using public forums to teach our Christian brothers and sisters of the essential Jewish nature of Jesus and his teachings is vital to a renewed relationship.

Jesus was a Pharisaic rabbi. Everything he taught and lived was based on the Torah and the Talmud. From his proclamation that "The meek shall inherit the earth (Matt. 5:5) which comes from Psalm 37, to the famous Golden Rule of 'Do to others what you would they do to you," which derives from Leviticus 19, to his statement that 'the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath,' whose origin is the Talmud (Yoma 85b), Jesus' mission was to renew Jewish attachment to the Torah in a time when the threads of tradition were being unwoven due to the oppressive hand of the occupying Roman beast.

WHILE JESUS lived, Judaism was practiced by 10% of the Roman Empire. Later, because the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity, it superseded Judaism as the world's foremost monotheistic faith. Judaism became a backwater that was practiced and largely known only to Jews. But it is specifically Jewish values which today represent a great hope for rejuvenating a crumbling modern world and from which our Christian brethren can greatly benefit.

For instance, Christianity says that faith trumps action. What you believe is more important than what you do. And that's why they want us to believe in Jesus. But is that really the problem in the world today, that people don't have the right beliefs, or that they don't have the right actions? Nearly all people believe in love, and, according to the Rutgers University Marriage Project, close to 90 percent of all college undergraduates also believe in marriage. But their actions are not loving, as they practice cheap 'hookups' that are bereft of romance and commitment, and husbands continue to profess a belief in marriage while cheating on their wives, as we've seen recently with so many politicians.

LIKEWISE, few today don't believe in democracy. Even wannabe dictators like Putin and Chavez, and actual dictators like Mubarak and Assad, do their best to give their actions a thin democratic veneer. It's their actions, rather than beliefs, that aren't democratic and which must change.

Another example: Christianity values perfection while Judaism values struggle. Jesus was perfect, and Christians are meant to emulate his example. But in this age where we are all so deeply flawed and so many are lost, the message they must hear is that of the Hebrew Bible, which recounts all the errors of its heroes to teach us that even flawed human beings can vastly contribute to the perfection of the world.


And is the Christian emphasis on salvation what we most need now, or is it the Jewish emphasis on redemption? Should we be talking about getting into heaven when, after so many thousands of years of human history, our earth still has genocide in Darfur, terrorism in the Middle East, and broken, lonely souls across the West?

Rather than worrying who needs to be converted to get into heaven, Christians and Jews should join together to create heaven here on earth.

The writer hosts a daily radio show in the US. He is working on a book about the Jewish life of Jesus.

Jerusalem Post

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apa...icle%2FShowFull

[History]

Jesus, a Jew, would want Jews to strive to be better Jews.
Which is what all Hebrew prophets exhorted.

As for Gentiles, Jesus stated his mission was only to Jews.
He would have been disappointed (if not horrified) in the changes that Paul made and the dissension he caused, in my humble opinion.

Respectfully,
History

This post has been edited by History: Apr 7 2008, 12:36 PM

[Bloc]

As for Gentiles, Jesus stated his mission was only to Jews.
He would have been disappointed (if not horrified) in the changes that Paul made and the dissension he caused, in my humble opinion.

Agreed on this point (based on what is written in the New Testament).

[LadyGarnetRose]

Ya know, reading in the NT what Jesus was teaching. Wasn't a new religion. Actually, it is closer to Reconstructionalism than Christianity.

[koroigetsuga]

"Do not go among the Gentiles, or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel" (Matthew 10:5-6)

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24)

This post has been edited by koroigetsuga: Apr 7 2008, 09:02 PM

[MARANATHA!]

Yes, it was necessary that the Word came to the Israelites first. He was afterall, their fulfillment of the promise God had made to Abraham:

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Gen 22:18 (KJV)

5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; 9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. Isaiah 49:5-9 (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matt 28:16-20 (KJV)

ANd Paul and Barnabas, speaking to the Jews said:

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed Acts 13:46-48 (KJV)


Angie.

[MARANATHA!]

Messiah would be sent to Israel, but through Him and the REMNANT that He gathers unto Himself, the nations of the earth will be blessed, and one day restoration for Israel:

18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. 19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. 21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? 22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. 23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. Isaiah 49:20-23 (KJV)

Angie.

[MARANATHA!]

Oh and in answer to the OP, would Jesus want to convert Jews?

I think Jesus would just like that Jews and indeed all men would recognize who He is. And one day I believe that all will.
But until then, all He asks of us is to love God with all our heart and all our mind and all our soul and to love neighbour as self.

I believe that God is faithful to all who seek His face with their whole being.

Angie.

[History]

Dear Marantha,
Thank you for your posts.

The Hebrews/Israelites/Jews were tasked to be "a light among the nations", that is to show through their righteous and ethical actions the knowledge of the One G-d and the "right and good" way to live one's Life under Him.

*This is not a prophecy about the promised moshiach but the duty of all Hebrews/Israelites/Jews under the Covenant between Israel and G-d.

The role of Hebrew prophets was solely to remind Jews of the Covenant and our obligations/responsibilities to keep it--and the benefit for ourselves and the world that thereby results.

Thus, I humbly suggest, that one may understand Jesus' statement, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24), as in keeping with this role. Though I'll defer to Christians on how they wish to interpret their own holy writings.

The KJV is not a translation of Hebrew Scripture I would recommend, btw.

Furthermore, in regard to true prophets, it is never about themselves but about G-d and His Torah/Teaching.
A false prophet is one who seeks to "add to or diminish" from it [Devarim 13:1].
In this regard, what is claimed for or by Jesus in Christian writings would place him outside the fence of Torah (as we say), which is why Christianity could not remain within the Jewish faith.
Christians have chosen another Path to HaShem. My it lead them to righteousness and love.

Respectfully,
History

This post has been edited by History: Apr 10 2008, 12:46 PM

[MARANATHA!]

Hi History,

I use the KJV because I have downloaded it and can access passages easily with it's word search. As a Catholic it is not my favuorite translation, but neither do I think it corrupt. And I have been told by other Jews that it is probably their least objectionable translation by Christians.
I usually compare it to other translations including the Judaica Press translation.

And I agree that Isaiah often speaks figuratively of Israel as a nation, but he speaks of Messiah, God's Holy Annointed righteous one more literally, and elsewhere God calls Him "my son":
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Psalms 2:5-12 (KJV)



You only have to read carefully to know that it is Messiah who speaks in Isaiah 49. It is Messiah who will bring Jacob back and gather Israel to Himself. Here it is from the Judaica Press Translation, the meaning does not change, by using a translationation you find more acceptable. Read it for yourself and let the Lord speak to you through His word:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/.../Chapter-49.htm

If Jesus were just a mere "prophet" I would agree with you. But we do not believe He is just a mere prophet. He is the Lord Himself.
I'm sorry that you may find that offensive but there are many who will find Him a stone of offense.:

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.(see Isaiah 28:16) 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,(see Psalm 118:22) 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence,(see Isaiah 8:14) even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:6-10 (KJV)


It is appropriate that Peter should refer to Psalm 118 here, since it is part of the great Hallel chanted during many feasts, during Passover while the lambs were being slaughtered, also at Pentecost, feast of Tabernacles as well as feast of Dedication. Jewish Feast days in fact that all point to Messiah, especially Him as the true Passover.

Angie.

[LadyGarnetRose]

(OFF TOPIC)

Maranatha,

This is a great site for translations http://www.olivetree.com/bible/index.php as is http://biblegateway.com

(back to topic...)

[MARANATHA!]

Thanks for that link LadyGarnetRose. I'm sure I will find it very helpfull.

Angie.