[Jim]

Okay...

I understand Ahl al-Bayt as People of the House of the Prophet (pbuh).

This seems to hold a much more significant importance among the Shia, not that it is unimportant among Sunni... but can we discuss its importance in the Shia belief?

[fatima2003]

of course I am happy to reply to you , but i am unable to reply this for 4 hours.....

i will eturn with a poper tafsir and understanding for you.... also, i prefer you read and go ahaead and at least tell me if we can continu in the other thread.. what we are saying here directly ties in to what we are discussing there.... take your time.....

Ma3as salaama

Fatima

[fatima2003]

actually brother, if you want, we can hold a internet class here.... i will go start to finish and prove Imamah we will start here... with the quran, i will make a teaching twice a week, unless everyone thinks this is too much i can do once a week....... but we will start here today, with the question

who are the Ahl al-Bayt? I will answer this properly in 4 hours, form there we will use this thread and i will prove to you imamah, if you are interested.....




i want you to think of something, the majority is not always right, you can use your judgement, and i am not pushing my beliefs, but at the end, you will understand more and then decide for your self, but if the majority is right, then we should all become christians!

This post has been edited by fatima2003: 04 October 2008 - 07:46 AM

[Jim]

i want you to think of something, the majority is not always right, you can use your judgement, and i am not pushing my beliefs, but at the end, you will understand more and then decide for your self, but if the majority is right, then we should all become christians!

And how does this answer my question in my first post?

[fatima2003]

lol... it does not... i have yet to answer your question!... hahahaha

sorry... i will get on this now.....

[MagnaCarta]

i want you to think of something, the majority is not always right, you can use your judgement, and i am not pushing my beliefs, but at the end, you will understand more and then decide for your self, but if the majority is right, then we should all become christians!

Careful with that train of thought. Islam claims to be the fastest growing religion, and we could use this logic to dispel any significance to Islam with the same point.

Usually the true majority of humanity are not represented in one particular faithh in any case...

[fatima2003]

Okay...

I understand Ahl al-Bayt as People of the House of the Prophet (pbuh).

This seems to hold a much more significant importance among the Shia, not that it is unimportant among Sunni... but can we discuss its importance in the Shia belief?

its importance is due to the fact that in the Book of Allah , the Holy Quran, we are instructed to love the Ahl al-Bayt (as) as we love the Prophet (sawas), we are instructed also to follow the Ulu 'l Amr, and in time i will explain this, we are instructed in the last sermon of the Prophet of Islam (sawas) to hold on the the Book of Allah and his Ahl-al-Bayt as the two will not seperate until we reach the pond.... hadith after hadith say to follow Imam Ali and his Ahl if we want to stay on the right path of islam.....

now, according to the sunni, the ahl al-bayt includes the wives of the prophet of Islam (sawas) and according to the shia this does not... allow me to present the shia veiw as to why this does not include the wives I have posted this before so all i am doing here is to copy and paste, but remember, the Prophet (sawas) is instructing us to follow His Ahl.... now we must determine who is a part of his Ahl, how and in what manner are we supposed to follow them, and why.

House of Abraham (AS)

Quran testifies that Sarah, the wife of Prophet Abraham (AS), was blessed by angels and was given the glad tiding that she will give birth to two prophets of God:

11:71
And his wife, standing by, laughed when We gave her good tidings (of the birth) of Isaac, and, after Isaac, of Jacob.

11:72
She said: "Alas for me! Shall I bear a child when I am an old woman and my husband now is an old man? That would indeed be a strange thing!"

11:73
The (angles) said: Do You wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings be upon you, O People of the House! He is indeed worthy of all praise full of all glory!"

Since in the mercy and the bounty of God offered in the above verse to the People of the House of Abraham, it has been a tendency of some Sunni commentators and their anxiety to find some argument for their counting the wives of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the terms Ahlul-Bayt. They argue that since Sarah the wife of Abraham is included in the term Ahlul-Bayt mentioned in the above verse, then all the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) are included in the verse 33:33 relating to the purity and the excellence of the Ahlul-Bayt of Prophet Muhammad.

However, these commentators intentionally or otherwise ignore the significance of the address by the Angels. If Sarah, the wife of Abraham, is included in the term Ahlul-Bayt used in the above verse, it is not because she was the wife of Abraham, but because she was going to be the MOTHER of two prophets (Isaac and Jacob). She was mentioned by angles in the above verse as a member of Ahlul-Bayt, AFTER she RECEIVED the glad tiding that she is pregnant of Prophet Isaac (AS).

The matrimonial relation between and a man and a woman is only circumstantial and can be given up at any moment. She could never be a permanent partner to any husband to be included in the heavenly address who are endowed with the unique and heavenly excellence UNLESS she brings a son who becomes a Prophet or an Imam. Thus if we consider Sarah as a member of the House, it would be only because she would be the mother of Isaac, and not being the wife of Abraham. The verses 11:71-73 quoted above show that Sarah was called among Ahlul-Bayt after she got to know that she is having Isaac (AS).

House of Imran (AS)

Likewise, Quran mentions the mother of Moses among the Ahlul-Bayt of Imran. Again, as we can see in the following verses, the emphasis here is the MOTHER of Moses and not the wife of Imran:

28:12
And We ordained that he refuse to seek any foster mother before so she said: Shall I point out to you a household who will take care of him for you, and will be kind to him?

28:13
So We restored him to his mother that she might be comforted and not grieve, and that she might know that the promise of Allah is true. But most of them know not.

The mother of Moses is termed as Ahlul-Bayt, not for being the wife of Imran, but for being the mother of Moses, otherwise the wives who are subject to divorce and being substituted with women better than them (Quran 66:5) can't be considered as Ahlul-Bayt as pointed out by Zaid Ibn Arqam as well. This is illustrated with the wife of Noah and Lot, though they were the wives of such great servants of God, they were not considered Ahlul- Bayt. They perished along with the rest of community.

Let's remember what Zaid Ibn Arqam said: "Ahlul-Bayt (household) of the Prophet are his lineage and his descendants (those who come from his blood) for whom the acceptance of charity (Zakat) is prohibited."

The wife of Imran was in the lineage of the Moses, so was the wife of Abraham who was in the lineage of Isaac and Jacob. Similarly, if Fatimah (AS) is among the Ahlul-Bayt Prophet of Islam, it is because not only she was the daughter of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), but also she was the mother of two Imams.

House of Noah (AS)

And Noah Cried unto his Lord and said: "My Lord! Verily my son is of my family; and verily Your promise is true, and You are the most just of the judges."

He (Allah) said: "O Noah! Verily he is not of your family; Verily he is (of) conduct other than the righteous; Therefore do not ask what you have no knowledge about; Verily I advice you not to be of the ignorant ones." (Quran 11:45-46)

Abul Ala Maududi wrote in his commentary of the above verse that:

"If a part of the body of a person becomes rotten and the surgeon decides to cut it off, he will not comply with the request of the patient, who says 'Do not cut because it is a part of my body'. The surgeon will reply, 'It is no longer a part of your body because it is rotten.' Likewise when a righteous father is told that his son is a worthless act, it means to imply that the efforts that you made to bring him up as a good son have gone waste for the work is spoilt and ended in utter failure."

Sunni reference:

* Commentary of Quran by Abul Ala Maududi (published by the Islamic Publications (Pvt) Limited), p367, under verse 11:45-46

Prophet Noah (AS) was pleading for his own son and the reply was that the lad was not worthy of being his son. It is made crystal clear by this verse that though one might be of the same blood and flesh, born through the same parents, but if the issue doesn't possess the good qualities of the parents then he or she is not of his parents' stock (as said in the second verse). Noah had three other sons, Aam, Sam and Yafas who were believers and who with their wives entered the Ark and were saved and Kanan was Noah's son by his OTHER wife who was a disbeliever and perished along with her son.

It can be concluded that if any one does not hold the goodness of the correct faith in Allah, be he the son of the Apostle, he is not to be of the stock of his parentage; His very birth through his own parents is denied to him, even the right to be on God's earth is withdrawn from him, and he is to be destroyed.

Thus, even one is to be the son of a prophet of Allah, the lack of righteousness gets him disowned from the progeny (Itrat) of the apostolic family. It is for this reason that the term Ahlul-Bayt is restricted to the deserving members of the House of the Prophet and doesn't cover all of those who are born from his blood. Ahlul-Bayt are only the individuals among Prophet's descendants who also had close affinity in character and utmost spiritual attainment with Prophet (PBUH&HF).

the term Ahl ul-Bayt means literally "people of the house"....... now we must do a proper search to see who this actually entails... there are a couple of things we must consider here......

Q.) are a man's wives Not considered his family in Islam?

A.) actually no they are not! lets review why......



1)when a muslim man and a muslim woman marry they enter into a mariage contract.

2) anything that both parties agree upon can be put into this contract as a part of the contract so long as it does not in any way contradict Islam.

3)this is a binding contract unless the contract is in breech by either party. If one of the parties is in breech of the contract (of marriage) then divorce (or the disolving of the contract) can be sought by the offended party.

(3b)yes people women have a right to seek a divorce in Islam,(provided there is cause) it is not only the sole right of the man!)

4) In Islam a muslim woman keeps the name of her father and does not take the name of her husband...... ( divorce is one of the reasons as to why) she is not her husbands property... (unlike christianity or judaism)


5) in the case of a breech of contract/death the responsibility of the woman reverts back to her father (or closest living male relative) and she goes back to living under his roof.

6) in the event of a divorce the children are, after the age of 7, kept in the custody of the father.

so, because in Islam (unlike christianity or judaism) mariage is a contract and not a "until death do you part" kind of thing, the wife is not considered the "family" of a man... she is mearly his wife... there is a difference......


the second thing we must to consider is this..... Did the Prophet (as) himself consider his wives to be a part of his Ahl ul-Bayt (as) the answer to this is no.....

Several hadiths of the Prophet named the members of the house of Mohammad. Muslim recorded in his Sahih the following:

"When the (following) verse came down (at the time of a debate between the Messenger and Christians from Najran): 'If anyone disputes in this matter with thee now after full knowledge has come to thee say: Let us summon our sons and your sons our women and your women ourselves and yourselves; then let us earnestly pray and invoke the curse of God on those who lie.' The Messenger of God called Ali Fatimah Hassan and Hussein and said: God these are the mem- bers of my family." ( 5)

Al-Termathi Ibn Manthoor Al-Hakim Ibn Mardawaih and Al-Bayhaqi in his Sunan all recorded the report of Om-Salemah wife of the Prophet in which she said:

"In my own house the (Quranic) verse (from chapter 33): 'Certainly God wants to keep away all abomination from you members of the House (of Mohammad) to make you pure and spotless." Ali Fatimah Al- Hassan and Al-Hussein were at my house. The Messenger of God covered them with a garment then said: "These are the members of my House. God keep away abomination from them and make them pure and spotless." (6)

Muslim in his Sahih recorded that Ayesha Said: "The Messenger of God came out wearing a wide cloak made of black hair. Fatimah Hassan Hussein and Ali came successively then he covered them with his cloak and said: 'Certainly God wants to keep all abominations away from you ye members of the House of Mohammad and make you pure spotless."( 7 )

( 5 ) Muslim Sahih Muslim Part 15 p. 176.

( 6 ) Al-Termathi Sunan Al-Termathi Part 5 p. 328 (hadith No. 3875)

( 7 ) Muslim Sahih Muslim Part 15 p. 194.


The two following hadiths are recorded in Al-Durr Al-Manthour by Al-Sayooti (his commentary on the Qur'an)

"Abu Al-Hamra (one of the companions of the Messenger) reported that the Messenger of God continued eight months in Medina coming to the door of Ali at every morning prayer putting his two hands on the two sides of the door and exclaiming: Assalat Assalat (prayer prayer). Certainly God only wants to keep away all abominations from you ye members of the House of Mohammad and to make you pure and spotless."

Ibn Abbas reported:
"We have witnessed the Messenger of God for nine months coming every day to the door of Ali son of Abu Talib at the time of each prayer and saying: Assalamu Aleikum Wa-Rahmatullah Ahl Al-Beit (peace and mercy of God be upon you ye members of the House of Mohammad). Certainly God wants only to keep away all abominations from you members of the House and to make you pure and spotless."



These hadiths clearly indicate that each one of the four is a member of the House of Mohammad. They also exclude all other individuals who were living at the time of Mohammad the Hashimites as well as the non-Hashimites from the Arabs and non-Arabs.

So, at the time of the death of our beloved Prophet, these 4 are the only ones considered to be His (sawas) Ahl.

are you with me so far?

[fatima2003]

أما بعد، ألا أيها الناس فإنّما أنا بشر يوشك أنْ يأتي رسول ربي فأجيب، وأنا تارك فيكم ثقلين: أولهما كتاب الله فيه الهدى والنور، فخذوا بكتاب الله واستمسكوا به» فحثّ على كتاب الله ورغّب فيه، ثم قال: «وأهل بيتي، أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي، أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي، أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي

O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord [i.e. the call of death]. I am leaving behind Two Precious Things (Thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it." (The narrator, Zayd ibn al-Arqam said: Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said), "And my Ahl al-­Bayt (family). I urge you to remember Allah regarding my Ahl al-­Bayt. I urge you to remember Allah regarding my Ahl al-­Bayt. I urge you to remember Allah regarding my Ahl al­-Bayt
Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al­Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matba`at Muhammad `Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123


VERSION TWO:

إنّي تارك فيكم ما إنْ تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي أحدهما أعظم من الآخر: كتاب الله حبل ممدود من السماء إلى الأرض، وعترتي أهل بيتي ولن يفترقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوض، فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما

I am leaving behind among you that which if you firmly hold onto, you will never go astray. One of them is greater than the other: the Book of Allah, a rope stretching from the heavens to the earth, and my progeny, my Ahl al-Bayt. The two will never separate until they meet me at the Pond. Watch how you treat them after me.

Sayyid Hasan Saqqaf has declared it sahih in his Sahih Sharh Aqidat al-Tahawi, p. 654 (published by Dar al-Imam al-Nawawi). Al-Albaani too has declared it sahih in his Sahih Jami' al-Saghir, Vol. 1, p. 482 (Maktaba al-Islami).

VERSION THREE:

إني تارك فيكم خليفتين: كتاب الله حبل ممدود ما بين السماء والأرض أو ما بين السماء إلى الأرض وعترتي أهل بيتي وأنهما لن يفترقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوض

I am leaving behind among you two successors: the Book of Allah, a rope between the heaven and the earth and my progeny, my Ahl al-Bayt. The two will never separate until they meet me at the Pond.

Hamza Ahmad Zayn in his authentication of al-Musnad (Vol. 16, p. 28, Dar al-Hadith, Cairo) declares its chain hasan. Al-Haythami in his Majma' al-Zawaid (Vol. 9, p. 162, Dar al-Kitab al-Alamiya) declares its chain good. Al-Albaani on his own declares it sahih in his Sahih Jami' al-Saghir, Vol. 1, p. 482 (Maktab al-Islami).

VERSION FOUR:

إنّي تركت فيكم خليفتين كتاب الله وأهل بيتي وأنّهما لم يفترقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوض

I am leaving behind among you two successors: the Book of Allah and my Ahl al-Bayt. The two will never separate until they meet me at the Pond.

Al-Haythami has recorded it in his Majma' al-Zawaid (Vol. 1, p. 170, Dar al-Kitab al-Alamiya) and declared: Tabarani has recorded it and its narrators are thuqah.

إني تارك فيكم خليفتين كتاب الله وأهل بيتي وأنهما لن يفترقا حتى يردا علي الحوض جميعاً

I am leaving behind among you two successors: the Book of Allah and the Ahl al-Bayt. The two will never separate until they meet me at the Pond.

The authenticator of Musnad Ahmad (Vol. 16, p. 50, Dar al-Hadith Cairo), Hamza Ahmad Zayn says: "Its chain is hasan".

VERSION FIVE:

كأني قد دعيت فأجبت إني قد تركت فيكم الثقلين أحدهما أكبر من الآخر كتاب الله وعترتي أهل بيتي فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما فإنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوض، ثم قال: إن الله مولاي وأنا ولي كل مؤمن ثم أخذ بيد علي فقال: من كنت وليّه فهذا وليّه، اللهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه

It is like I have been called and I will respond. I have left Two Weight Things behind among you. One of them is greater than the other: the Book of Allah and my progeny, my Ahl al-Bayt. Watch how you treat them after me, for the two shall never separate until they meet me at the Pond. (Then he said) Allah is my Master, and I am the master of all believers. (Then he held Ali's hand and said) Whosoever I am his master, this (Ali) is his master. O Allah, love whoever loves him and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him.

Al-Hakim has recorded the hadith in his al-Mustadrak (Vol. 3, p. 109, Dar al-Marfat) and said: This hadith is sahih on the conditions of the two Sheikhs though they have not recorded it in full. Ibn Kathir too has recorded it in his al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah (Vol. 5, p. 228, Mu'sassat tarikh al-Arabi) and said: Our Sheikh Abu Abdullah al-Dhahabi said: The hadith is sahih.

VERSION SIX:

فمن كان الله ورسوله مولاه فإن هذا مولاه وقد تركت فيكم ما إنْ اخذتم به لن تضلوا كتاب الله سببه بيده وسببه بأيديكم وأهل بيتي

And whosoever Allah and His Messenger are his Master, then certainly this one (Ali) is his master. I have left among you what, if you hold firmly, you will never go astray: the Book of Allah, one end is in His Hand while the other end is in your hands, andmy Ahl al-Bayt.

Busayri said: Ishaq has narrated it from a sahih chain (Itihaf al-Khaerati al-Mahr, Vol. 9, page 279, No. 8974, Maktaba al-Rushd, Riyadh). Ibn hajar al-Asqalani too in his Matalib al-Aliya (Vol. 4, p. 65, No. 3972, Dar al-Ma'rfat) states: This is a sahih chain. The authenticator of Al-Sakhawi's al-Istijlab (Vol. 1, p. 357, Dar al-Bashaira al-Islamiyyah), Khalid ibn Ahmad Samee says: The chain is sahih.



these are the sahih ahadeeth from sunni books, they are instructing us to hold firmly to the Ahl al-Bayt and take Imam Ali (as) as our master/guardian.

so this is the significance of the Ahl al Bayt (as).... we follow them as we were instructed to by the holy prophet of Islam.....

i will relate more tommorow

[Jim]

its importance is due to the fact that in the Book of Allah , the Holy Quran, we are instructed to love the Ahl al-Bayt (as) as we love the Prophet (sawas), we are instructed also to follow the Ulu 'l Amr, and in time i will explain this, we are instructed in the last sermon of the Prophet of Islam (sawas) to hold on the the Book of Allah and his Ahl-al-Bayt as the two will not seperate until we reach the pond.... hadith after hadith say to follow Imam Ali and his Ahl if we want to stay on the right path of islam.....

now, according to the sunni, the ahl al-bayt includes the wives of the prophet of Islam (sawas) and according to the shia this does not... allow me to present the shia veiw as to why this does not include the wives I have posted this before so all i am doing here is to copy and paste, but remember, the Prophet (sawas) is instructing us to follow His Ahl.... now we must determine who is a part of his Ahl, how and in what manner are we supposed to follow them, and why.

Salaams sis

why must we determine who is Ahl al Bayt? Shouldnt this naturally be the Prophet's (pbuh) surviving wives and daughters?

After all if we go to far into who is Ahl al Bayt, aren't all Muslims Ahl al Bayt, since we follow the Prophet (pbuh)?

[burningmoon]

First Shias massacred them and then shed crocodiles tears for them

[Murteza]

Salaams sis

why must we determine who is Ahl al Bayt? Shouldnt this naturally be the Prophet's (pbuh) surviving wives and daughters?

After all if we go to far into who is Ahl al Bayt, aren't all Muslims Ahl al Bayt, since we follow the Prophet (pbuh)?

bcuase this is the keypoint of divide in our ummah.

this is cannot simply define with 'wives and daughters' since in al-ahzab 33:33 it's clearly say that it's pointed ahlul-kisa' along with a lot narrated hadith that explain who is the ahlul kisa'

[aladdin]

why must we determine who is Ahl al Bayt? Shouldnt this naturally be the Prophet's (pbuh) surviving wives and daughters?

After all if we go to far into who is Ahl al Bayt, aren't all Muslims Ahl al Bayt, since we follow the Prophet (pbuh)?

Salam brother,

I am pretty sure that you know about Imprecation (Mubahala), which is posted here!
The surat aal-e-Imran was revealed in the ninth year of A.H. At end of the ninth year, in the last month this verse was revealed.

Literal: So who argued/quarreled with you in it from after what came to you from the knowledge, so say: "Come, we (will) call our sons, and your sons, and our women, and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, then we curse each other/pray humbly , so we make God's curse/torture on the liars ."

http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/61/

The five people who went for Imprecation (Mubahala), Mohammad (saws), Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain!

Right after the above surat was revealed, the surat al-ahzab was revealed.

Literal: And join/dwell/be respected in your houses/homes, and do not show your beauty/decoration, the first pre-Islamic paganism's/ignorance's showing off (of) beauty/decoration, and stand/keep up (F) the prayers, and give/bring the charity/purification, and obey God and His messenger, truly God wants to eliminate/wipe off from you the filth/torture, people (of) the House/Home, and He purifies you purification .

http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/33/33/

The verse starts with a feminine plural (you), which includes only females. And, ends with masculine plural (you), which includes both males and females.

Usually, the above verse is explained by hadiths al-kisa (hadiths of the cover/cloak).

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim and Jam'u'l-Usul that Hasan Ibn Samra asked Zaid Ibn Arqam whether the wives of the Holy Prophet were included in his Ahle Bait. Zaid said: "By Allah, no. A wife remains with her husband for a certain period, but when he divorces her, she goes to her father's home, joins her mother's family, and is completely cut off from her husband. The Ahle Bait are those members of the family of the Holy Prophet for whom charity is forbidden. They will not be separated from the Ahle Bait wherever they go."

And:

Many narrators of hadith have recorded the incident concerning harrira. Among them are Imam Tha'labi in his Tafsir, Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal in his Musnad, and Ibn Athir in his Jam'u'l-Usul, quoting from the Sahih of Tirmidhi and Muslim: all narrate from the wife of the Holy Prophet, Ummu'l-Mu'minin Umme Salma, who said: "The Holy Prophet was in my house when Fatima brought a cup of harrira to him. At that time he was sitting on the porch where he used to sleep. He had a Khaibari mantle under his feet. I was offering prayers in my apartment. The Prophet asked Fatima to call her husband and sons. Soon Ali, Hasan, and Husain came in and all shared the harrira. Gabriel appeared and revealed this holy verse to the Prophet: 'Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the house! and to purify you with a (thorough) purifying.' (33:33)"

"Then the Holy Prophet covered all of them with his mantle, raised his hands towards the sky, and said: 'O Allah, these constitute my progeny. Keep them away from every impurity and purified with perfect purification.'"

Umme Salma says that she moved forward and desired to enter the mantle saying: "O Prophet of Allah, may I also join the group?" The Holy Prophet replied: "No, remain in your own place, you are in virtue." This meant that she could not be included among the Ahle Bait and attain their rank, but that her end was to be good.

And:

Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5955:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

This post has been edited by aladdin: 15 October 2008 - 03:06 PM

[Jim]

Quick question...

doesnt the Ahl Bayt include Aisha bint Abu Bakr?

[jazain]

from what i understand yes...but then what do i know.

[aladdin]

Salam brother,

No it doesn't, as none of the wives are included. Look at the above hadith, where Umme Salma the wife of rasool Allah Mohammad (saws) asked Mohammad to be included and Mohammad denied her.

Should read complete chapter of 66 of the Quran, it is only 12 verses!

This post has been edited by aladdin: 22 October 2008 - 06:33 AM

[jazain]

tell me why some places say the family caliphs and so forth, yet seemingly most shia sites say no. how can it be so different and expected to be accepted?

[aladdin]

tell me why some places say the family caliphs and so forth, yet seemingly most shia sites say no. how can it be so different and expected to be accepted?

Salam sister,

None of the Sunni believe that the family of the wives are included in the ahl-Bayt. There are Sunni who believe that wives of Mohammad are included in the chapter 33, verse 33 as ahl-Bayt. I have quoted the verse above.

1. In the above sahih hadiths narrated by several sources Mohammad denies Umme Salma when she asks to come under the cover. The people of the cover are Mohammad, Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain, meaning the ahl-Bayt.

2. In the above sahih Muslim hadith narrated by Aisha, again confirms that the people of the cover are Mohammad, Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain, meaning the ahl-Bayt.

3. Other hadiths confirm that they will be nine more from Hussain.

4. Chapter 33 tells Mohammad if their wives accept to be with him from now on, he can neither marry anymore nor he can divorce these wives.

5. Chapter 66 threatens both Aisha bint abu Bakr and Haffsa bint Omar bin Kattab, if they both don't behave, Allah will give them divorce.

6. In Islam wife or wives are not joined as one. They have no relation with the husband, beside being the wife or wives. On divorce this relationship no longer exists.

7. Divorced wives have no share in inheritance. All the surviving wives (widows) have only 12.5% share in inhertance.

I can go on but the above should be sufficient!

This post has been edited by aladdin: 22 October 2008 - 06:57 AM

[Jim]

Salam brother,

No it doesn't, as none of the wives are included. Look at the above hadith, where Umme Salma the wife of rasool Allah Mohammad (saws) asked Mohammad to be included and Mohammad denied her.

Should read complete chapter of 66 of the Quran, it is only 12 verses!

So, if none of the wives are from the Ahl Bayt (People of the House, or family.), then how can the children be? Wives are family too according to Islam.

The Prophet's wives are exclusively his.

[aladdin]

So, if none of the wives are from the Ahl Bayt (People of the House, or family.), then how can the children be? Wives are family too according to Islam.

The Prophet's wives are exclusively his.

Salam brother,

Here ahl-Bayt doesn't mean people of the house. It means certain close people of the house who God wanted to purify. Here is the verse 33 again.

....truly God wants to eliminate/wipe off from you the filth/torture, people (of) the House/Home, and He purifies you purification.

Now look at one of the above hadiths narrated by Aisha in sahih Muslim.

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

In Islam wives have no relation to husbands by marriage, also on divorce the husbands have to only provide one year maintenance as per the Quran and not lifetime maintenance.

Just before Mohammad died two of his wives Aisha and Haffsa were almost divorced by Allah. In this case how can they be pure. Also, if Aisha was pure why was she accused of adultery. Mohammad could have brought this verse and proved her innocence, that God has said that she is not filth and that God has said that she is pure! But, he didn't!

This post has been edited by aladdin: 22 October 2008 - 07:22 AM

[Jim]

Just before Mohammad died two of his wives Aisha and Haffsa were almost divorced by Allah. In this case how can they be pure. Also, if Aisha was pure why was she accused of adultery. Mohammad could have brought this verse and proved her innocence, that God has said that she is not filth and that God has said that she is pure! But, he didn't!

The Quran clearly vindicates Aisha from all accusations of adultery bro. Allah's words. So that cannot count against her. Quran 24:4-11

Also, prove up the statement that Aisha was divorced from the Prophet prior to his death.