The Kabbah |
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The Kabbah |
Mar 26 2008, 08:39 PM
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#1
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![]() The Pagan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Pagan From: Scotland Posts: 8,724 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 24-March 08 |
i was recently looking at my friends pictures from Makah and noticed the Kabbah covering has writings on it, im guessing these are arabic but what do they actually say?
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Mar 27 2008, 03:24 AM
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#2
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![]() Dominion Liege Religion:Muslim From: Islamfactor Posts: 16,990 Gender:
Group: Administrator Joined: 7-March 08 |
i was recently looking at my friends pictures from Makah and noticed the Kabbah covering has writings on it, im guessing these are arabic but what do they actually say? Im not sure of the exact interpretation since I cant read arabic well. However, they are verses of the Quran embroidered in real gold thread. I have been told from many Muslims that there is a new one made every year and the old one is cut up and given to the poor as charity. Can any other Muslims confirm this? |
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Mar 27 2008, 03:32 AM
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#3
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![]() Crypt Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Muslim Posts: 507 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 25-March 08 |
Im not sure of the exact interpretation since I cant read arabic well. However, they are verses of the Quran embroidered in real gold thread. I have been told from many Muslims that there is a new one made every year and the old one is cut up and given to the poor as charity. Can any other Muslims confirm this? I know that they replace the covering every year. I dont know what they do with old one though. |
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Mar 27 2008, 09:29 AM
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#4
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![]() The Pagan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Pagan From: Scotland Posts: 8,724 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 24-March 08 |
So am I right in guessing that when the sheet is replace a new quote from the Quaran is added?
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Mar 27 2008, 10:12 AM
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#5
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![]() Dominion Liege Religion:Muslim From: Islamfactor Posts: 16,990 Gender:
Group: Administrator Joined: 7-March 08 |
So am I right in guessing that when the sheet is replace a new quote from the Quaran is added? I did some research on this issue. The tapestry is called "Kiswa". The Kaaba is covered with new kiswa (cover) every year, which coincides with Haj. It was a custom started by the Prophet Ismail 4000 years before the origin of Islam. Every year the old Kiswa is removed, cut into small pieces and gifted to certain individuals, visiting foreign Muslim dignitaries and organisations. Some of them sell their share as souvenirs of Haj. Earlier Umar bin al-Khattab (Leader in early Islamic history) would cut it in to pieces and distribute them among the pilgrims who used them as shelter from the heat of Makkah. The present cost of making the kiswa amounts to SAR 17 million ($ 4,537,048 USD). The cover is 658 sq. metres long and is made of 670 kgs of pure silk. For embroidery 15 kilos of gold threads are used. It consists of 47 pieces of cloth and each piece is 14 Mts. long and 101 cms broad. The kiswa is wrapped around the Kaaba and fixed to the ground with copper rings. Traditionally the pattern of kiswa has not changed. The material is made up of silk and a gold embroidered band is sewn about three fourth the distance from the bottom. The part covering the door, which stands 2.13 mts above the ground on the north-east side wall, is covered separately with richly embroidered Quranic verses, leaving an opening for the black stone. The colour of Kiswa kept changing during the reigns of different Caliphs and rulers. In olden days different clans of Makkah would cover the Kaaba by turns yearly. Tribal leaders would also bring small drapes to cover the walls of Kaaba. Once the grand mother of Prophet Mohammed (Pbuh) had offered white Kiswa. Prophet Mohammed (Pbuh) used Kiswa made of Yemeni cloth. Caliphs (Leaders) Umar and Uthman covered it with an Egyptian white cloth, Qubati. Mamoon Al-Rasheed and Fatami Khalafa Caliphs used white Kiswa. The cloth would come from Baghdad, Egypt and Yemen depending on whose influence was greater in Makkah. Viceroy of Egypt Mohd Ali Pasha after splitting from the Turkey Empire, made making of Kiswa the state responsibility. The Kiswa was brought by annual caravan from Cairo. Nassir Abbasi (1160-1207) started green Kiswa and later shifted to black, since then the black kiswa has become the tradition. Earlier the Kiswas’ were plain. Only in 1340 the embroidery border tradition was introduced by the Egyptian ruler Hassan. In 1926 a factory was set up at Makkah by Late King Abdul Aziz to make Kiswa. Moulana Dawood Ghaznavi and Moulana Ismail Ghaznavi played a pivotal role in setting up the factory. Initially all the craftsmen were brought from India. It took more than 100 craftsmen the whole year to weave the cloth on ancient wooden handlooms and to embroider it in magnificent calligraphy. In 1937 the factory was closed down due to non availability of modern machinery. The factory was re-opened after a long gap in 1962. Making of Kiswa is an interesting process and done in different stages. The best silk is imported from Italy and Germany. With the help of special detergents and special olive oil soaps the silk is washed to remove its protective wax. The silk is exposed to high temperatures of 90c and washed several times to get its natural colour. The best results of dyeing are achieved on the natural colour. Ten years before dyeing was done manually and now it is being done through specialised machines. Later weaving is done. In the beginning the belt of Kaaba had 8 pieces and later it was doubled. In 1971 two additional pieces called YA HAYYU and YA QAYUUM were introduced. The cover and inner layer are done in one department. Designing of Quranic verses is being computerised. Computerised designing has slowly replaced manual designing and increased the speed of work. Silver and golden threads are used for embroidery. This year onwards the embroidery threads will be made locally, by the same goldsmith who made the door of Kaaba. Finished pieces under go strict quality control tests in the laboratory before being stitched together. Cost of Kiswa in 2002 The total cost of the Kiswa, which is made of pure black silk, amounts to the sum of SR17 million ($ 4,537,048 USD). The height of the Kiswa, which is decorated with verses of the Holy Quran, is 14 metres. The Kiswa includes the dress of the door of the Holy Kaaba, which is called ‘Al-Burgu’. The height of Al-Burgu, which is made of pure silk, is 6.5 metres, and its width is 3.5 meters. It is also decorated with verses of the Holy Quran. Over 200 trained Saudi cadres work at the factory of the Kiswa in Makkah. http://groups.msn.com/bushraislam/makingof...kaabakiswa.msnw Here is a picture of the making of the Kiswa: http://ibnfarooq.tripod.com/coverwriting.jpg To my knowledge, the quranic verses are the same every year. |
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Mar 27 2008, 10:17 AM
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#6
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![]() The Pagan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Pagan From: Scotland Posts: 8,724 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 24-March 08 |
your pic doesnt work
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Mar 27 2008, 10:59 AM
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#7
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![]() Dominion Liege Religion:Muslim From: Islamfactor Posts: 16,990 Gender:
Group: Administrator Joined: 7-March 08 |
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Mar 27 2008, 11:05 AM
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#8
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![]() Dominion Liege Religion:Muslim From: Islamfactor Posts: 16,990 Gender:
Group: Administrator Joined: 7-March 08 |
Here ya go Runic:
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Mar 27 2008, 11:10 AM
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#9
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![]() The Pagan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Pagan From: Scotland Posts: 8,724 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 24-March 08 |
Says image hosted by tripod for me ... maybe save to your comp and upload as an attachment?
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Mar 27 2008, 11:19 AM
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#10
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![]() Dominion Liege Religion:Muslim From: Islamfactor Posts: 16,990 Gender:
Group: Administrator Joined: 7-March 08 |
Lets see if this works.. my server isnt allowing me to upload right now
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Mar 27 2008, 02:46 PM
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#11
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![]() The Pagan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Pagan From: Scotland Posts: 8,724 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 24-March 08 |
that looks os nice, ill post the pics my friend took when she did Hajj last week
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Apr 1 2008, 12:24 PM
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#12
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![]() Fundamentalist ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Muslim From: Egypt Posts: 7,458 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 30-March 08 |
i was recently looking at my friends pictures from Makah and noticed the Kabbah covering has writings on it, im guessing these are arabic but what do they actually say? Hi dear Those are usually verses from the Qur'an. If you have pics I can translate some of them for ya. For example: ![]() The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings [3:96] I found one more: ![]() In the circle thingy at the upper left corner are the words "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful" and the beginning of chapter 112 "Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One" Beneath that are two verses of chapter 106, the beginning of which is probably on the right. It says "For the accustomed security of the Quraysh - Their accustomed security [in] the caravan of winter and summer - Let them worship the Lord of this House, Who has fed them, [saving them] from hunger and made them safe, [saving them] from fear." On the right upper corner is part of verse 2:286 "Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people." That's what i can make out |
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Apr 1 2008, 03:23 PM
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#13
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![]() Narcissist In Chains ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Muslim(Sunni) From: Canada Posts: 812 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 25-March 08 |
I think it’s gross that they use gold threads to write the words on the black sheet. Seems like such an extraverted thing to do and so prideful.
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Apr 1 2008, 03:52 PM
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#14
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![]() Jack Booted Fashionista! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Jewish(Reconstructionist) Posts: 3,698 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 30-March 08 |
I think it's gross that they use gold threads to write the words on the black sheet. Seems like such an extraverted thing to do and so prideful. Actually, I don't see it that way. If you've ever done the kind of embroidery work that is shown for the Kabbah, you might garner an understanding of the difficultly and devotion it takes to make it, rather than the flaunting of wealth. Couching, which is what that is. Is difficult under the best of circumstances. It is capturing a rope under thread to a backing fabric without piercing the rope. Satin Stich Couching is tedious, backbreaking, finger numbing, eye crossing work, when using cotton thread on cotton fabric. Gold threads do not behave as regular thread, it crimps, it bends, it flattens, it tears what it is sewn into. Gold on Silk...I do not have the fortitude of body or mind to undertake even a small segment of such a task. |
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Apr 1 2008, 04:08 PM
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#15
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![]() Fundamentalist ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Muslim From: Egypt Posts: 7,458 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 30-March 08 |
Sorry for being a jerk
But it's better typed as Kaaba, or Ka'ba. (sawwy) |
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Apr 1 2008, 05:56 PM
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#16
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![]() Jack Booted Fashionista! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Jewish(Reconstructionist) Posts: 3,698 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 30-March 08 |
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Apr 1 2008, 09:32 PM
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#17
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![]() Nightstalker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Atheist Posts: 2,135 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 22-March 08 |
this is from wikipedia:
The Black Stone (al-Hajar-ul-Aswad) is a significant feature of the Kaaba, believed by Muslims to date back to the time of Adam and Eve.[7] Located on the eastern corner of the Kaaba, it is about 30 cm (12 inches) in diameter and surrounded by a silver frame. Hajj pilgrims often attempt to kiss the Black Stone, as Muhammad once kissed it.[8] Because of the large crowds this is not always possible, and so as pilgrims walk around the Kaaba, they are to point to the Black Stone on each circuit.[9] Tradition has it that the Black Stone was white when it came to earth, subsequently turning black under the burden of peoples' sins.[10] |
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Apr 2 2008, 02:20 AM
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#18
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![]() Dominion Liege Religion:Muslim From: Islamfactor Posts: 16,990 Gender:
Group: Administrator Joined: 7-March 08 |
course, you cant take Wiki as an Islamic source.
I have not heard or read anything in Islam that would confirm Wiki. Sometimes legends are just legends and Wiki's supporting link does not exist. |
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Apr 2 2008, 03:03 PM
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#19
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Blood Warrior ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Christian(Catholic) Posts: 3,045 Gender:
Group: Advanced Joined: 18-March 08 |
this is from wikipedia: The Black Stone (al-Hajar-ul-Aswad) is a significant feature of the Kaaba, believed by Muslims to date back to the time of Adam and Eve.[7] Located on the eastern corner of the Kaaba, it is about 30 cm (12 inches) in diameter and surrounded by a silver frame. Hajj pilgrims often attempt to kiss the Black Stone, as Muhammad once kissed it.[8] Because of the large crowds this is not always possible, and so as pilgrims walk around the Kaaba, they are to point to the Black Stone on each circuit.[9] Tradition has it that the Black Stone was white when it came to earth, subsequently turning black under the burden of peoples' sins.[10] Would this be like kissing the Blarney Stone? It gives you the gift of gab. |
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Apr 2 2008, 04:06 PM
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#20
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![]() Nightstalker ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Religion:Atheist Posts: 2,135 Gender:
Group: Basic Joined: 22-March 08 |
course, you cant take Wiki as an Islamic source. No, you can't take it as an Islamic source. Does that make it more or less reliable? QUOTE Sometimes legends are just legends and Wiki's supporting link does not exist. Wiki also reports it was erected by Ibrahim. Does it follow that Ibrahim is just a legend? Or do we get to pick and choose here? |
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