Homosexuals Blaspheme Christ and Mock Christians Options

[MagnaCarta]

Jimdi my friend, open new thread for it. I would love to discuss this nonsense I posted from the Bible.

Hey D,

This was discussed here. Read and learn:

http://islamfactor.org/index.php?showtopic...20&start=20

[Deserves2Die]

Well, before you go to the other thread, Dee, explain this one:

"Who do you think you are deceiving? Why don't you really apply his "response" towards bashing, according to the Bible? He (Jesus) said

"For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him, But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" (Luke 19:26-27)"



You obviously have no idea what it means. Or should I say the website that you regurgitated it from has absolutely no idea what the verse is about.

FYI, Jesus is telling a parable. The nobleman/king in the parable utters the phrase you quote, not Jesus. Jesus didn't say, "Slay them before me." A nobleman/king said it in the story Jesus was telling. A nobleman/king. Not Jesus. Got that?

Maybe you should stick to what the bible and christian doctrine actually say, rather than what you think they say.

Look who's talking.. Why don't you wash your hands, go back to WI and reply to my post about the Last supper? Go solve those contradictions I posted from your Word of God, call the Holy Ghost for your rescue. You will be crucified solving them. LOL, don’t take it literally, "I'm just telling a PARABLE"

Why did you choose this single statement and left the others? I told you that I hate the replies in pieces. Oh, do you agree with the Rest of My Post DD Tony? Do you agree that HE said the REST and He DID mean it?

I knew someone would say this, Just go check the thread "Catholics in Pakistan", where Damo is crying to admins that "D2D insults my Book and the Holy Ghost", and I murmured that "I'M JUST QOUTING", But He says "NOOOO, IT’S D2D", The GOD of this World has blinded him surely. (2CO 4:4)

That was what Jesus teaching, giving them an example of a "NOBLEMAN/KING", The Story starts from Luke 19:1 when Jesus was passing through Jericho and Zecchaeus the Chief Tax collector wanted to see him, but because of the crowd and of being short he couldn’t. So climbed up the Fig tree and when Jesus reached there He said Come down I will stay at your House today. People begin to mutter that Zacchaeus is a Tax collector and Jesus is going to be with him today. “But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount." (19:8) “Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham, .For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." (19:9-10)

Jesus declares him without sin, attained Salvation, because of his repentance, and because of how He gave half of his possessions in Charity, this was the Salvation he also preached in Mathew 19:17-20. He was a Tax collector and Now He was willing to pay four times the amount to whom He had cheated. In this Context Jesus start telling them a Parable, as He was near Jerusalem and people supposed that He is going to take hold over it & to establish God’s Kingdom by any minute now.

What is a Parable? Oxford dictionary says “Story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson. 2 allegory. [Greek parabole comparison] Please note it.

Jesus starts; there was that Noble Man, a prince who went to another country where he was appointed a King. He gave money to his ten servants and ordered them to multiply it until I comeback. After his departure, the people rebelled and denied his kinghood over them. So He gained Kingdom and returned. He called his servants to check what they gained with what he gave them. The first one said “I made it ten times more”. He said “You’ll get charge of ten cities”. Second one said “I made it five times more”, He said “You’ll get charge of 5 cities”. The third one came and said “Here is your money; I didn’t use it because I was afraid of losing it, and because you are a Hard man, you wouldn’t have had forgiven me for it, and my efforts shall be of no benefit”. The “Noble Man” said “Fine, I will use your own excuse against you, If you knew that I’m so strict about it, Why didn’t you at least put in the bank, so I could get interest? So He said give this to the one who has 10. Others said “He already got ten”. He said “Who has more, more will be given, and who has nothing, even what he has will be taken, and then He ordered to bring forth those who don’t him to be their King and slay them”.

People of Jericho thought that He is going to establish his Kingdom any moment now, and for this he’s heading toward Jerusalem. This was the main point of this parable. So he is in this ambiguous language telling them If the King is not around, doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t be back, referring it to himself. And giving the example of faithful servants who even in the absence of the King work faithfully and When the King returns, they pay gratitude to him by all possible manners, referring it to Zacchaeu, and giving the example of other servant who are faithful as they claim to be but don’t work according to his Wish and give lame excuses, refering to his Disciple who were 24/7 with him, As He also expressed in “Whosoever doesn’t take his Cross and follow me is NOT good enough for Me” (Matthew 10:38). And giving the “VERDICT” of that “N-O-B-L-E K-I-N-G” Who’ll slay his enemies who don’t want him to rule over them, referring it to Himself, his enemies Jews and competetor Romans in Jerusalem, over the thrown of David, which was his possession he believed.

D2D

This post has been edited by Deserves2Die: Aug 21 2008, 01:46 PM

[Deserves2Die]

Hey D,

This was discussed here. Read and learn:

http://islamfactor.org/index.php?showtopic...20&start=20

Hey, I don't "SEE" it discussed what I posted from Paul.

This post has been edited by Deserves2Die: Aug 21 2008, 05:55 PM

[jimdi]

Of course you don't D2D! WE know this .... you just post what is written in a study manual without whit nor reason.

[Deserves2Die]

My Study manual is THE BIBLE, and if it has something written in it without whit nor reason, then it's not my problem, deal with it.

This post has been edited by Deserves2Die: Aug 22 2008, 05:48 PM

[Martinz]

Homosexuality is an issue many Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahais simply don't know how to deal with. However, Buddhists, Pagans and Osho Rajneeshies seem to be alot more accepting and tolerant.

Lately, science has been indicating that homosexuality is something people are born with. With my discussions with homosexuals, I tend to agree with this. What many homosexuals tell me is that when they were children they were inclined to feel attracted towards the same sex even before they knew about sex and/or the physical expression of that attraction. From what I can gather, God doesn't create any more than 5% humans as gay, perhaps as a challenge to promote spiritual maturity through the life experiances they may go through. Whatever.

The Bible talks about the sinfulness of Sodom and Gomorrah (where the word sodomy comes from).
In Genesis 18, God informs Abraham that he plans to destroy the city of Sodom because of its wickedness.
Perhaps we can assume that more than 80% of the inhabitants were either gay or bisexual. Now that is a whole lot more than 5%. Why? Maybe it is because the gay and bisexual aspects are a symptom rather than a cause. We're talking about two towns where peoples sexual appetites are out of control. The only way to get homosexuality from 5% to well over 80% is because it all started with sex with the children and the fact that in these two places it was concidered 'normal' by their social standards (but not by God's). So the children accept this behaviour as 'normal', and when those children grew up they passed on the behaviour to their children (and child prostitutes were most probably at premium prices - ask Gary Glitter!). Drugs can also send you into sexual overdrive, also. When we look at it in this way, it is obvious that these two towns had to go, as decreed by God.

Coming back to the present day. It is understandable that what gays do in the bedroom seems abhorant and abnormal from a 'straight' point of view, and to be misinterpreted by general society, especially from religious communities. But, from the gays point of view, what we might concider 'abnormal', is normal for them. They feel they were born that way; some feel that God created them that way. So, they are rejected by the religious communities; they feel, persecuted for what they are. Out of their feeling of rejection, the more immature of the gays say, "*** you religious stuck-up fools and *** your God! We are going to be what we are, so up yours --!!!"

So, when we understand why immature gays react that way then we are not going to take offence, especially if we know or know of more mature gays who don't try to react to the perceived social persecution around them in the same manner. I have met many gays who I have felt were very spiritually mature people. But, gee, I don't know: Only god knows what they are like at the very core of their beings, so let God do the judging.

During these last few years, it isn't homophobia that is the main issue in the western world, it is Islamaphobia! Muslims in the west are suffering from a very subtle form of persecution, especially in the U.S.A, where 50% of American Muslims are clinically depressed. And then there is this spiritual vacuum in the western world. And gays and lesbians are simply part of that world.

Maybe it is time for the Jews, Christians, Muslims and other religions to really start working together, united by a One God, to bring God to the people. Learn tolerance through understanding and let God do the judging (on judgement day). Because only God can see into a persons heart and see the truth.

[LtTony]

Look who's talking.. Why don't you wash your hands, go back to WI and reply to my post about the Last supper?

Why did you choose this single statement and left the others? I told you that I hate the replies in pieces. Oh, do you agree with the Rest of My Post DD Tony? Do you agree that HE said the REST and He DID mean it?

I knew someone would say this, Just go check the thread "Catholics in Pakistan", where Damo is crying to admins that "D2D insults my Book and the Holy Ghost", and I murmured that "I'M JUST QOUTING", But He says "NOOOO, IT'S D2D", The GOD of this World has blinded him surely. (2CO 4:4)

That was what Jesus teaching, giving them an example of a "NOBLEMAN/KING", The Story starts from Luke 19:1 when Jesus was passing through Jericho and Zecchaeus the Chief Tax collector wanted to see him, but because of the crowd and of being short he couldn't. So climbed up the Fig tree and when Jesus reached there He said Come down I will stay at your House today. People begin to mutter that Zacchaeus is a Tax collector and Jesus is going to be with him today. "But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount." (19:8) "Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham, .For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." (19:9-10)

Jesus declares him without sin, attained Salvation, because of his repentance, and because of how He gave half of his possessions in Charity, this was the Salvation he also preached in Mathew 19:17-20. He was a Tax collector and Now He was willing to pay four times the amount to whom He had cheated. In this Context Jesus start telling them a Parable, as He was near Jerusalem and people supposed that He is going to take hold over it & to establish God's Kingdom by any minute now.

What is a Parable? Oxford dictionary says "Story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson. 2 allegory. [Greek parabole comparison] Please note it.

Jesus starts; there was that Noble Man, a prince who went to another country where he was appointed a King. He gave money to his ten servants and ordered them to multiply it until I comeback. After his departure, the people rebelled and denied his kinghood over them. So He gained Kingdom and returned. He called his servants to check what they gained with what he gave them. The first one said "I made it ten times more". He said "You'll get charge of ten cities". Second one said "I made it five times more", He said "You'll get charge of 5 cities". The third one came and said "Here is your money; I didn't use it because I was afraid of losing it, and because you are a Hard man, you wouldn't have had forgiven me for it, and my efforts shall be of no benefit". The "Noble Man" said "Fine, I will use your own excuse against you, If you knew that I'm so strict about it, Why didn't you at least put in the bank, so I could get interest? So He said give this to the one who has 10. Others said "He already got ten". He said "Who has more, more will be given, and who has nothing, even what he has will be taken, and then He ordered to bring forth those who don't him to be their King and slay them".

People of Jericho thought that He is going to establish his Kingdom any moment now, and for this he's heading toward Jerusalem. This was the main point of this parable. So he is in this ambiguous language telling them If the King is not around, doesn't mean that he wouldn't be back, referring it to himself. And giving the example of faithful servants who even in the absence of the King work faithfully and When the King returns, they pay gratitude to him by all possible manners, referring it to Zacchaeu, and giving the example of other servant who are faithful as they claim to be but don't work according to his Wish and give lame excuses, refering to his Disciple who were 24/7 with him, As He also expressed in "Whosoever doesn't take his Cross and follow me is NOT good enough for Me" (Matthew 10:38). And giving the "VERDICT" of that "N-O-B-L-E K-I-N-G" Who'll slay his enemies who don't want him to rule over them, referring it to Himself, his enemies Jews and competetor Romans in Jerusalem, over the thrown of David, which was his possession he believed.

D2D

"Look who's talking.. Why don't you wash your hands, go back to WI and reply to my post about the Last supper?"

What in heaven's sake are you blabbering about?


"Why did you choose this single statement and left the others? I told you that I hate the replies in pieces. Oh, do you agree with the Rest of My Post DD Tony? Do you agree that HE said the REST and He DID mean it?"

One thing at a time, D. One thing at a time.


"I knew someone would say this, Just go check the thread "Catholics in Pakistan", where Damo is crying to admins that "D2D insults my Book and the Holy Ghost", and I murmured that "I'M JUST QOUTING", But He says "NOOOO, IT'S D2D", The GOD of this World has blinded him surely. (2CO 4:4)"

Quit ranting and/or whining and stick to the subject.

Earlier in this thread, you wrote:

Magna, What shall I say to you. Christians portray a "Peaceful", A Very peaceful image of Jesus Christ. He (Jesus) pbuh is the only Man according to your Bible in Human History who uttered such experession ever....

Who do you think you are deceiving? Why don't you really apply his "response" towards bashing, according to the Bible? _{He (Jesus) said}

"For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him, But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" (Luke 19:26-27)


You implied something completely different than what the text was saying. You implied Jesus wanted his enemies brought before him and slain. Due to an extreme lack of discernment <edited>, you have absolutely no understanding of christian scripture. Yet you pathetically (and comically) keep looking in the mirror telling yourself how smart you are. Foolish only scratches the surface when describing your self-deluded diatribes.

As far as the rest of your post goes..... let me guess, home-schooled?

Maybe one of your muslim friends can explain your point to us.

Reason for edit: No insults plz

[jimdi]

My Study manual is THE BIBLE, and if it has something written in it without whit nor reason, then it's not my problem, deal with it.

Come now D2D. Read and understand please. You post from your study Manual without whit nor reason means .... you dont understand the truth of what you post. I've being trying to deal with your view for a long time but you appear not to read and/or understand what has been explained to you. You repeat this with most posters.

[MagnaCarta]

Homosexuality is an issue many Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahais simply don't know how to deal with. However, Buddhists, Pagans and Osho Rajneeshies seem to be alot more accepting and tolerant.

Lately, science has been indicating that homosexuality is something people are born with. With my discussions with homosexuals, I tend to agree with this. What many homosexuals tell me is that when they were children they were inclined to feel attracted towards the same sex even before they knew about sex and/or the physical expression of that attraction. From what I can gather, God doesn't create any more than 5% humans as gay, perhaps as a challenge to promote spiritual maturity through the life experiances they may go through. Whatever.

The Bible talks about the sinfulness of Sodom and Gomorrah (where the word sodomy comes from).
In Genesis 18, God informs Abraham that he plans to destroy the city of Sodom because of its wickedness.
Perhaps we can assume that more than 80% of the inhabitants were either gay or bisexual. Now that is a whole lot more than 5%. Why? Maybe it is because the gay and bisexual aspects are a symptom rather than a cause. We're talking about two towns where peoples sexual appetites are out of control. The only way to get homosexuality from 5% to well over 80% is because it all started with sex with the children and the fact that in these two places it was concidered 'normal' by their social standards (but not by God's). So the children accept this behaviour as 'normal', and when those children grew up they passed on the behaviour to their children (and child prostitutes were most probably at premium prices - ask Gary Glitter!). Drugs can also send you into sexual overdrive, also. When we look at it in this way, it is obvious that these two towns had to go, as decreed by God.

Coming back to the present day. It is understandable that what gays do in the bedroom seems abhorant and abnormal from a 'straight' point of view, and to be misinterpreted by general society, especially from religious communities. But, from the gays point of view, what we might concider 'abnormal', is normal for them. They feel they were born that way; some feel that God created them that way. So, they are rejected by the religious communities; they feel, persecuted for what they are. Out of their feeling of rejection, the more immature of the gays say, "*** you religious stuck-up fools and *** your God! We are going to be what we are, so up yours --!!!"

So, when we understand why immature gays react that way then we are not going to take offence, especially if we know or know of more mature gays who don't try to react to the perceived social persecution around them in the same manner. I have met many gays who I have felt were very spiritually mature people. But, gee, I don't know: Only god knows what they are like at the very core of their beings, so let God do the judging.

During these last few years, it isn't homophobia that is the main issue in the western world, it is Islamaphobia! Muslims in the west are suffering from a very subtle form of persecution, especially in the U.S.A, where 50% of American Muslims are clinically depressed. And then there is this spiritual vacuum in the western world. And gays and lesbians are simply part of that world.

Maybe it is time for the Jews, Christians, Muslims and other religions to really start working together, united by a One God, to bring God to the people. Learn tolerance through understanding and let God do the judging (on judgement day). Because only God can see into a persons heart and see the truth.

Good post. I disagree with your assessment of Muslim oppression and would like to see some stats on the 50 percent depression rate which may be right in line with the rest of the population. Depression is the effect of living in a stressful life for many people, not just Muslims. Clinically it has more to do with how the person who is depressed views the world around them than the actual reality of the world around them. In other words those who feel like victims because of life WILL be more depressed than those who don't think this way, even if they are in the exact same circumstances...but I digress into my psych/soc quadrant of my brain.


Back on the point of homosexuality, there ARE plenty of PEOPLE of all faiths who work together to bring tolerance towards Gays. I have always believed it was not a choice but how one was born. I think it is one of humanities challenges from God, to not hate and despise those who are different than us. Not an easy task for humanity, but those who truly LOVE GOD will find it easy, for God loves all equally and if we harm any one of his creations because of OUR deficiency of tolerance that says much more about us than the one we are despising, no matter what their 'crime' is.

I also follow Jesus example with the adulteress, it is not our job to judge and condemn humans on earth, that IS God's business and our role is very clear. We are to continue to love unconditionally the humans God has created on earth right along with us, no matter who they are or what they have done. We have a saying in Christianity.... Love the sinner, not the sin.

[Deserves2Die]

HMMMM. We'll continue after Ramadan, untill then, LIVE!

[godisone]

What is the position of any RELIGION OR CHURCH THAT CONDONES THE ACTS OF LESBIANS OR HOMOSEXUALS?

What does the Bible say?

God loves the sinner but not the sin (John 3:16) and the same must be for all who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, thus any religion that does not OPENLY condemn Homosexuality but openly say that God allows it by his worshipers and loves them even though they are perverted AND STILL PRACTICE, is taking a direct stand against God (James 4:4) thus there worship and organisations are totally futile, in fact it becomes reverence for God's enemy Satan the Devil who rejected all of God standards. All who reject God standards and practice sexual perversions do the same, but when they do it in God's name they must stand before his word the Bible and be examined and judge by his Holy Scriptures! 1 Cor. 6:9-11 states "What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men (Gk. "arsenokoites"), nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's kingdom."

The above from 'The New International Version' at 1 Cor. 6:9-11 reads, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual (Gk. "arsenokoites") offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Ftn. Reads: "6:9 not inherit the kingdom of God. Cf. Jn 3:3-5. sexually immoral. Paul here identifies three kinds of sexually immoral persons: adulterers, male prostitutes and males who practice homosexuality. In Ro 1:26 he adds the category of females who practice homosexuality. People who engage in such practices, as well as the other offenders listed in vv. 9-10, are explicitly excluded from God's kingdom …."-Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV. Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc.

Further to the above the N.I.V. reads at Jude 3-7 "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

"Sodomite n. person who practises sodomy. [Greek: related to *sodomy]."-Oxford Dic.

"Sodomy n. = *buggery. sodomize v. (also -ise) (-zing or -sing). [Latin from Sodom: Gen. 18,19] ."-Oxford Dic.

"Buggery n. 1 anal intercourse. 2 = *bestiality 2."-Oxford Dic

Note Gen. 13:13 "And the men of Sod´om were bad and were gross sinners against Jehovah." The N.I.V. reads: "Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD. "

IF THEY HAVE ON HOPE OF GOING INTO GOD'S HEAVENLY KINGDOM HOW CAN THEIR 'LOVE' & WORSHIP BE EXPECTABLE TO GOD; ALSO HOW CAN THEY LEAD ANYBODY TO GOD, IF THEY STAND REJECTED BY HIM?

But they can change as 1 Cor 6:11 says "And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God."

Here it is plan to see that for their worship to be expectable they MUST CHANGE and stop their gross perversions and until they do they bring God into disrepute by their detestable perversions as Romans 1:18-21 says "For God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened."

God passes his judgment on them at Rom 1:24-28 Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, 25 even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; 27 and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error. 28 And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, … 32 Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them." This is the same as ancient Israel did and God executed all of them and all there congregations. -Jude 5-8

At 1 Cor. 15:33-34 we read "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits. Wake up to soberness in a righteous way and do not practice sin, for some are without knowledge of God." so these persons have no relationship with the God of the Bible as seen in the above text as they make a PRACTICE OF SIN and say God agrees, either by word or deed thus they are liars and take people away from God's truth and Love, so then Hebrews 10:26-27 applies to them "For if we practice sin wilfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition." These persons need help to practice TRUE Christianity and repent and come to God's Son and leave their false Christianity with it's toleration of gross sexual perversions, for If they continue in perversions the sacrifice of Jesus Christ will not apply to them as they have not repented from there PRACTICE OF Sinning.

At James 1:26-27 we read "If any man seems to himself to be a formal worshiper and yet does not bridle his tongue, but goes on deceiving his own heart, this man's form of worship is futile. The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." The 'world', ungodly people alienated from God and under the direct or indirect control of Satan (1 John 2:15-17), accepts Homosexuality as an alternative life style, this CANNOT BE SO WITH ANYBODY THAT CLAIMS TO BE A CHRISTIAN.

For instance the Bible clearly states at 1 John 5:2-3 how to identify persons that have a true Love for God as it states "By this we gain the knowledge that we are loving the children of God, when we are loving God and doing his commandments. For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome" and the above condemnation of sexual perversions is clear, so the God of such persons is found at 2 Tim. 3:4-5 they are "lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away", thus their God is sex as it comes before obeying God's moral code as found in the Holy Bible, so they stand rejected by God if they do not change.

NOTE THE FOLLOWING WARNING if homosexuals etc. claim to be Christians !

1 Cor. 5:9-13 "In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators*, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator* or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves."

*FORNICATION - Illicit sex relations outside of Scriptural marriage. The Greek word translated "fornication" is por·nei'a. Regarding the meanings of por·nei'a, B. F. Westcott in his book Saint Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians (1906, p. 76) says: "This is a general term for all unlawful intercourse, (I) adultery: Hos. ii. 2, 4 (LXX.); Matt. v. 32; xix. 9; (2) unlawful marriage, I Cor. v. I; (3) fornication, the common sense as here [Eph 5:3]." Bauer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, p. 693) defines por·nei'a as "prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse." Porneia is understood to involve the grossly immoral use of the genital organ(s) of at least one human; also there must have been two or more parties (including another consenting human or a beast), whether of the same sex or the opposite sex.-Jude 7

Also at 2 Peter 2:1-3 the scriptures clearly states "However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct*, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering."

*LOOSE CONDUCT - Acts that reflect a brazen attitude, an attitude betraying disrespect, even contempt for law and authority. … The Greek term a·sel'gei·a (loose conduct) may also be rendered "licentiousness; wantonness; shameless conduct; lewdness of conduct." (Gal 5:19, ftn; 2 Pet 2:7, ftn) Neither term is restricted to sexual immorality. The Scriptures classify as loose conduct such things as gang rape (Jg 19:25; 20:6), prostitution (Jer 13:27; Eze 23:44), and bloodshed (Ps 26:9, 10; Eze 22:9; Hos 6:9). "The unprincipled man" is the one who is said to scheme loose conduct, and those to whom such conduct is "like sport" are classed as stupid, or morally worthless.—Isa 32:7; Prov 10:23.

This post has been edited by godisone: Nov 11 2008, 11:26 AM

[LadyGarnetRose]

I find it ludacris to see the Torah taken in such context.

Christians, please keep yelling how bad homosexuality is, while you chomp down that rack of pork ribs, while your waistlines get larger, and you covet your neighbor's television set.

This post has been edited by LadyGarnetRose: Nov 11 2008, 07:01 PM

[MARANATHA!]

God made some people that way.

Did He really make some this way or are some this way because, as we Christians believe, creation has been corrupted because of the Fall, and now we are ALL a broken people in some way or another?
In fact a broken people in dire need of healing and redemption.

Sure, nobody "chooses" to be homosexual or a paedophile or a compulsive philanderer or an alcoholic or any of the myriad other things that mankind is cursed with.

To be afflicted with any of these things is not of itself a sin as these weaknesses in us are not of our own choosing or even in our control. But to live a lifestyle governed by these weaknesses IS a sin because then we are acting in a way that is contrary to the will of God, which is what the definition of sin is.

According to Genesis, human sexuality is a gift given to man by God to beget offspring and promote intimacy between the man and his wife.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen 1:28 (KJV)




Society too often stands on two extreme sides. Either condemning and even hating the person for something they cannot help or else trying to "normalize" the homosexual lifestyle by calling it an "alternative" and even "natural" lifestyle.


Both positions are wrong. The first because we are failing to love others as God commands us to, and the second because we are trying to redefine God's natural order.

Homosexuals are no worse and no better as people than the rest of us sinners, and therefore we should never judge them unless we want to be judged by the same standard. All of us break God's laws and live contrary to His ordinances in one way or another.


We condemn the sin, because we must always try to uphold God's perfect standards, but we must NEVER condemn the sinner, because by doing so we are only condemning ourselves.




Angie

[LadyGarnetRose]

I have a HUGE question that has never been answered by any Christian.

If you believe that with Christ the law ended when he spoke the words (Matthew 22:37-40) 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. How can Homosexuality be a Sin?

[MagnaCarta]

I have a HUGE question that has never been answered by any Christian.

If you believe that with Christ the law ended when he spoke the words (Matthew 22:37-40) 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. How can Homosexuality be a Sin?

Love is not excluded from any sinner. I don't see how the commandment to love denies the existence of sin or denies sin is defined.

What it does is tell us that we are to love the sinner but understand that sin is still sin. Versus beliefs that we are to condemn and hate humans who sin...we are all 'sinners' of varying degrees. That does not mean we are not worthy of love. How we treat others, even if they have sinned, is what is being addressed in Christian doctrine.

Also, the law didn't 'end' it was fulfilled and a new covenant was set forth.

This post has been edited by MagnaCarta: Nov 13 2008, 02:37 PM

[LadyGarnetRose]

Love is not excluded from any sinner. I don't see how the commandment to love denies the existence of sin or denies sin is defined.

What it does is tell us that we are to love the sinner but understand that sin is still sin. Versus beliefs that we are to condemn and hate humans who sin...we are all 'sinners' of varying degrees. That does not mean we are not worthy of love. How we treat others, even if they have sinned, is what is being addressed in Christian doctrine.

Also, the law didn't 'end' it was fulfilled and a new covenant was set forth.

That still doesn't answer my question.

[MagnaCarta]

That still doesn't answer my question.

I guess I didn't understand your question then. Sorry.

[LtTony]

I have a HUGE question that has never been answered by any Christian.

If you believe that with Christ the law ended when he spoke the words (Matthew 22:37-40) 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. How can Homosexuality be a Sin?

It is unfortunate -- and a little odd, IMO -- that you've never received an answer. In the few moments I have, I'll try.

First, understand there is some controversy and disagreement over definitions within christianity over this subject. It is clear to me that homosexuality (the behaviour) is or can be a sin. But I also can see some validity to the other point of view.
Regardless, with this sin or any other sin, I worry about my own shortcomings first before I start putting my nose into anyone else's business. A complication arises because of the so-called gay agenda. It seems they want tacit public approval of their behavior; some sort of affirmation. What two adults do in private is none of my business, but I'm not going to say it is a good thing or encourage anyone to adopt that lifestyle.

(BTW, when mag wrote, " Also, the law didn't 'end' it was fulfilled and a new covenant was set forth.'", that was important. The law was fulfilled, completed in christian doctrine, not ended.)

I gotta go, so maybe these will help:


Look over paras. 2357-96:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm


Check out this thread from a couple of subject searches I did at catholic answers:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?...mosexuality+sin


Searches:

http://forums.catholic.com/search.php?searchid=2209268

http://forums.catholic.com/search.php?searchid=2209279


This, from a multi-religion/agnostic site (I think), might help, too:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

[LadyGarnetRose]

It still does not make sense at all.

From one side of the mouth, mitzvot are picked and chosen which to consider sin.

From the other side of the mouth, mitzvot are picked and chosen as to what is ok now.

[Epistemes]

Hello,

There was natural law before Sinai.