Islam and Flag Burning Options

[Jim]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Is it an Islamic thing to burn American flags or hate america?

[Coexist]

Glad you pointed that out, Jim.... things like that gives others good reason not to accept, like, or even want to listen to Muslims... groups us all into one big, bad stereotype.

[guardian1]

didn't even notice the flag burning earlier.

[Coexist]

Ok now that it's in the Cage... I'm all for the ladies in the pic, being armed, in armed forces, whatever. But the kids? Those little boys are what, 6 years old or so? Why are they marching like soldiers?

Teaching children to hate the things they don't know or understand, how do they justify that? Burning flags, training children to use military type weapons....

How do they consider this Islamic?

[guardian1]

i study military history on the side and i've read quite a few accounts of boys as young as 6 fighting in combat. been going on since the dawn of time

[MagnaCarta]

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. This picture obviously reveals alot of propaganda. I agree with you Rachel. When a society teaches its children that hate is the way, it is truly lost. Even if they are being hated, teaching it in return is the same as being what they despise in the other. It is truly pathological.

Very political picture, if it were a Nun in the picture I would be incensed and insulted by these images. There is ZERO piety in war, hate, burning of flags, etc.

[Jim]

I don't know.

This stirs up some deep sentiments in me.

I am an American and a Muslim. So on the national (patriotic) level for one.

Second, this represents Islam is out to destroy my home, ie USA.

Third, it wasnt that long ago that our government decided it was better to promote a Palestian state (against Israels wishes) than to deny them outright the international right to self determination. Perhaps we should just drop the whole thing like a hot potato and see what they will do then. I dont know.

Our government is slowly changing but things like this hurt the cause much more than it helps.

I held protests USING American flags to show American support for Palestine so that my congressman would understand that it is American to support a Palstinian state. Is it any wonder he thinks I am fooling myself and him when he sees things like this?

How can I expect my government to change and support people who wish to see it destroyed? that is silly. You (the USA) dont promote ideas that will ultimately destroy you. So, its no wonder the government is slow to change on these issues.

How can I, as a Muslim, support something that wants to destroy me and my government?

[guardian1]

sometimes violence is called for. anyone remember when jesus got pissed (this is in the bible) when he saw the money changers and merchants conducting business in the temple? read the story. he actually stopped and took the time to make a whip and then started beating the *** out of the offending parties. but no one says that was naughty...

[Jim]

i study military history on the side and i've read quite a few accounts of boys as young as 6 fighting in combat. been going on since the dawn of time

Well, there is ROTC and other programs in the USA that teach kids military discipline and even marksmanship

[guardian1]

rotc is a joke and NOT combat training

[Coexist]

The ROTC and Boy Scouts don't teach the boys hatred and violence. They're basically defensive training and character building.

[Jim]

Well, there is ROTC and other programs in the USA that teach kids military discipline and even marksmanship

okay.. lol.

you guys missed where i said ROTC and OTHER PROGRAMS.

The Army and navy have programs also.

[Coexist]

I didn't miss it.... I mentioned the Boy Scouts

[guardian1]

yeah jim, but they aren't turning those kids into "govt trained weapon systems"

[MagnaCarta]

sometimes violence is called for. anyone remember when jesus got pissed (this is in the bible) when he saw the money changers and merchants conducting business in the temple? read the story. he actually stopped and took the time to make a whip and then started beating the *** out of the offending parties. but no one says that was naughty...

Don't even bring that up again. We had a whole thread on it (which you obviously didn't read). Sure he was angry but you can not prove he whipped the HUMANS. He turned their tables over for descrating the holy temple. He drove the livestock completely away from their owners and the temple, so it makes sense that he used the whip made from the cords their owners used from what they had been driven in on. In no way is it ever stated that he whipped human flesh with it. Anger and violence upon humans are two very different things. If you look closely at Jesus teachings he was NOT ever supportive of violence. It burns me when this is interpreted this way. If he supported violence he would have never healed the sliced ear of the soldier when Peter defended him as he was being arrested and he would not have admonished Peter for his error. He said, live by the sword you shall surely die by the sword.

Read your bible again, this time the whole of Jesus teachings and ALL of his examples. He did not advocate military action, uprising using war, or teaching little children to hate. In fact he showed zero hatred for the very ones who killed him.

According to the Gospels, Jesus took offense to the money changing in front of the sacred temple, and so, creating a whip from some cords, drives out the livestock, scatters the coins of the money changers, and turns over their tables, and those of the people selling doves.

This post has been edited by MagnaCarta: Jul 8 2008, 07:36 PM

[MagnaCarta]

How can I expect my government to change and support people who wish to see it destroyed?

How can I, as a Muslim, support something that wants to destroy me and my government?

Great questions. When I see Death to America and flag burning in this instance, yet I hear "You just don't care about what is happening to us" you have to wonder, why should we. You want us dead. Does that not have a price with it? Like we will continue to ignore your pleas for help...

It is a bit crazy but that is what war and hatred are. Insane.

[Jim]

yeah jim, but they aren't turning those kids into "govt trained weapon systems"

They march, they carry mock weapons, they target practice, they obey a control and command structure. Same difference.

[guardian1]

and jesus also said he came not to bring peace but a sword. and seeing how jesus is supposed to be God,, how about the ten plagues. a lot of innocent egyptians died horrible deaths. or how about when God ordered the jews into canaan and told then to kill everyone ans specifically mentions the women, children and newborn children. if God didn't have a problem with the wholesale slaughter of the most innocent people there is (newborns) i really don't think he has a problem with people who are outright desecrating his temple to getting beat a little bit

[Jim]

Great questions. When I see Death to America and flag burning in this instance, yet I hear "You just don't care about what is happening to us" you have to wonder, why should we. You want us dead. Does that not have a price with it? Like we will continue to ignore your pleas for help...

It is a bit crazy but that is what war and hatred are. Insane.

Magna, it is circular.

they want us to help them
they display hatred for us
we see that and dont want to help as a result
they wonder why we wont help them

[MagnaCarta]

and jesus also said he came not to bring peace but a sword. and seeing how jesus is supposed to be God,, how about the ten plagues. a lot of innocent egyptians died horrible deaths. or how about when God ordered the jews into canaan and told then to kill everyone ans specifically mentions the women, children and newborn children. if God didn't have a problem with the wholesale slaughter of the most innocent people there is (newborns) i really don't think he has a problem with people who are outright desecrating his temple to getting beat a little bit

Man I have covered so much of this in other threads, so we won't go OT on this one. As for what you read in the OT, well again Jesus came to set the record straight. That humanity still isn't able to GET IT is not anyones problem but their own. It isn't God. It is humans claiming their perceptions are God's will. But they aren't. And this is why we look to Jesus example. He said, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Interpretation of the few sword verses out of context do not support what you are attempting to prove.

This is HUMAN sickness, not Gods. It is an insult to think God ever ordained our human hands to harm human flesh. He is mighty enough to do it Himself if that is what he wanted. Where do humans get off blaming him for their sick destructive nature against each other. The line is clear. God is love. This is not God, this violent putrid hatred. Not the God I know.