Obama Or Clinton?, Poll Options

[Jim]

Of the Democrat candidates, who would you prefer?

[Coexist]

Was leaning towards Obama, till I heard his preacher... really racist man. And if it's someone Obama looks to, then I dunno about that.

Don't like Hillary at all.

[Kent]

Well he denounced his FORMER pastors speech pretty eloquently. And I think he means it. Him over Hilary hands down.

[Coexist]

Yeah, I saw a lot of this... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle3555561.ece

When exactly did he denounce this man, though? Surely, if he were a member of this church, this can't be the first he's hearing about the racist and anti-America remarks.

[Rhoda]

I have to agree with the above. How can I trust someone who had to be 'outed' before he would denounce the racist rantings of Wright?

As a columnist pointed out in the WaPo yesterday, the accusation by Wright that white Americans created the AIDs virus in a plot to infect black people, should by itself have earlier led Obama to seek out and punish the white criminals or to have walked away from this lying cleric.

I am reminded of a couple of threads back on WI in which white Americans were accused of heinous crimes without evidence. Christians were said to be kidnapping Muslim children, for example.s

I heard another black commentator say that we whites don't understand that black parishioners see this type of ranting as 'performance art', that they recognize that it's all show.

Now if THAT isn't insulting to blacks, I can't think of anything that could be.

Take the Rev. Wright's remarks, put them in the hands of a Pat Robertson, substitute the word 'black' for 'white' and make excuses. I dare you.

I don't trust fundamentalists of any stripe in positions of power. Or blatant hypocrites. Apparently Obama is both.

But then Hillary is self-serving to the point of parody.

I guess it'll have to be McCain.

But remember, there are seven endless months to go. The revelations will continue, I have no doubt.

[Jim]

I have to agree with the above. How can I trust someone who had to be 'outed' before he would denounce the racist rantings of Wright?

As a columnist pointed out in the WaPo yesterday, the accusation by Wright that white Americans created the AIDs virus in a plot to infect black people, should by itself have earlier led Obama to seek out and punish the white criminals or to have walked away from this lying cleric.

I am reminded of a couple of threads back on WI in which white Americans were accused of heinous crimes without evidence. Christians were said to be kidnapping Muslim children, for example.s

I heard another black commentator say that we whites don't understand that black parishioners see this type of ranting as 'performance art', that they recognize that it's all show.

Now if THAT isn't insulting to blacks, I can't think of anything that could be.

Take the Rev. Wright's remarks, put them in the hands of a Pat Robertson, substitute the word 'black' for 'white' and make excuses. I dare you.

I don't trust fundamentalists of any stripe in positions of power. Or blatant hypocrites. Apparently Obama is both.

But then Hillary is self-serving to the point of parody.

I guess it'll have to be McCain.

But remember, there are seven endless months to go. The revelations will continue, I have no doubt.

I think Rhoda the issue that the media picked up on the comments. It would be shooting himself in the foot to make a public statement on racist comments at 'Church' without a public discovery of these statements (common among black politically oriented pastors) and outcry.

I want you all to think of what the outcry would be like if a MUSLIM had made those comments in a Masjid (Mosque)!!! What do you think would be the public response??? Why is not that same anger applied to black Christian Pastors?

If a Muslim said that, you would have a serious balcklash against ISLAM, perceived Muslims... people target mosques and muslim owned businesses.. etc.

The answer is twofold I think...

1) To attack a black in America would cause race riots in every city street.
2) It is a Christian Minister saying it.

[Rhoda]

I think that ANY cleric who made remarks of this nature should be ousted by his congregation.

I'm not a Christian, but I'll be darned if I think the Right Reverend Wright is either.

If a Muslim or a white Christian were making remarks of this nature, I'd hope the congregation would leave en masse.

[Jim]

I think that ANY cleric who made remarks of this nature should be ousted by his congregation.

I'm not a Christian, but I'll be darned if I think the Right Reverend Wright is either.

If a Muslim or a white Christian were making remarks of this nature, I'd hope the congregation would leave en masse.

Well I agree with your sentiment. But I would reverse it. If they were making remarks (Christian or Muslim) of this nature I would expect them to throw him out.

But do you see the social contradiction I am talking about?

[Jon]

Well I agree with your sentiment. But I would reverse it. If they were making remarks (Christian or Muslim) of this nature I would expect them to throw him out.

But do you see the social contradiction I am talking about?

Jim. I see it. I think this pastor ,if you can even call him that, is filled with anger and hate and making a few bucks off it. I don't see any difference between this guy and those crazy imam's in London. These types of teachings don't present anything positive to a community. Muslim or Christian. Also I didn't see Obama denounce Wright. I saw him make a good speech on race relations but he never denounced this guy. The Clintons set a trap for him because if you remember Obama's whole campaign was about transcending race and offerring hope. But Jim you are right to a degree. It is a double edged sword. Imagine if it was a Catholic Preist saying these things who happens to be a presidential candidate's Reverend. The media would be all over it. So it's not just Muslims per say. After all the right and the left did throw Mitt Romney under the bus because he is a Mormon.


God Bless,

Jon

[Jim]

True Jon. Of course this all plays into the hands of the republicans. The Dems are shooting themseles in the foot! Hillary trails Obama and McCain came out over Obama in the polls.

When will people associated with these guys learn to shut up!?!

It appears the Black community got over zealous and over confident in their excitement at the first chance they had forablack president. What?? do they think they are untouchable?

And I saw the commentary on Larry King with the black political activists and apologists for Obama. WTF? Do they know how to speak in every day english or do they always HAVE to go into rymes?? Now is not the time for black nationalism or racism. Now is not the time to put yourself off as a black revolutionary, like Dr. King! You have to be at least perceived to be just an ordinary commentator, not someone who is stuck in their own world trying to push a particular agenda (i.e. black agenda).

I don't think Obama is as extreme or racist as some of these people speaking in support of him. I think the exhileration and excitement of finally having a Black nationalist agenda fulfilled (ie first Black President) is creating a tidal wave that could backfire.

Don'tget me wrong, I am supporting Obama. I think he is the best option for a change in politics which America desperately needs. Kick the Baby boomers out and get fresh blood and new thinkers in.

[Ceshune]

So far, it looks like Nader is Mr. Clean.

[Ceshune]

Here is an aha! factor:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03...right-surfaces/

[Kent]

Here is an aha! factor:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03...right-surfaces/

I thought Obama wouldn't stoop to this kind of thing. So what if Clinton met the man? He met thousands of people over the years. Apparently Mr. Yes We can thinks that includes counter-mudslinging. I thought he was better then that.

[Ceshune]

Perhaps if the good reverend in Chicago is so befuddled, he needs Obama to set him straight.

[Haq al lugi]

Well he denounced his FORMER pastors speech pretty eloquently. And I think he means it. Him over Hilary hands down.

NO he didn't. He defended the "Religious Wright". Obama has shown us The Audacity of Hate. His speech has been called the Obamanable Snow Job for a reason. Do you remember when he piled on Imus? What if he had said about Imus what he said about "Reverend" Wright....

[Jim]

NO he didn't. He defended the "Religious Wright". Obama has shown us The Audacity of Hate. His speech has been called the Obamanable Snow Job for a reason. Do you remember when he piled on Imus? What if he had said about Imus what he said about "Reverend" Wright....

Here,

Listen and read the entire speech for yourself. I think he did a good job ad dealing with the issue of race and the lasting effects of slavery of blacks in America, which is the source of this debate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/o...-t_n_92077.html

[Jon]

True Jon. Of course this all plays into the hands of the republicans. The Dems are shooting themseles in the foot! Hillary trails Obama and McCain came out over Obama in the polls.

When will people associated with these guys learn to shut up!?!

It appears the Black community got over zealous and over confident in their excitement at the first chance they had forablack president. What?? do they think they are untouchable?

And I saw the commentary on Larry King with the black political activists and apologists for Obama. WTF? Do they know how to speak in every day english or do they always HAVE to go into rymes?? Now is not the time for black nationalism or racism. Now is not the time to put yourself off as a black revolutionary, like Dr. King! You have to be at least perceived to be just an ordinary commentator, not someone who is stuck in their own world trying to push a particular agenda (i.e. black agenda).

I don't think Obama is as extreme or racist as some of these people speaking in support of him. I think the exhileration and excitement of finally having a Black nationalist agenda fulfilled (ie first Black President) is creating a tidal wave that could backfire.

Don'tget me wrong, I am supporting Obama. I think he is the best option for a change in politics which America desperately needs. Kick the Baby boomers out and get fresh blood and new thinkers in.

I am for getting the babyboomers out. I think a lot of folks are. This is why McCain and Obama are in the running regardless of who crossed party lines to get these canidates to the top. I personally don't believe in a lot of Obama's policies but he did seem more level headed than the baby boomer Hilary. But I must say the chuch he attends really frightens me. As you said if that was a muslim it would be a different story or worse yet if it was a white man.


God Bless,

Jon

[Jim]

I agree Jon. Babyboomers must get out! This status quo politics s*** is not working for our country!

Here is a rather large article by the Jerusalem Post. The Jewish vote has always been critical in key states. Its divided on this issue.


Obama, Clinton tied among Jewish Dems

Even as conservatives continue to paint Barack Obama as being surrounded by anti-Israel advisers, a new poll shows the Illinois senator and Hillary Rodham Clinton in a neck-and-neck battle for Jewish support.

A Gallup Poll tracking views March 1-22 found Jewish Democrats in a statistical dead heat in their support for their party's presidential nominees.

Clinton, a New York senator, led Obama, 48 percent to 43 percent - a differential falling within the 6 percent margin of error for the 368 Jews who were interviewed.

The results reflect the dead heat found among voters in general in a separate national Gallup Poll released Monday.

At the same time, Obama did better among Jews than among white Protestants and white Catholics.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

[Haq al lugi]

At the same time, Obama did better among Jews than among white Protestants and white Catholics.

--------------------------------

My post on Obama was editted by the Admins of this website.

This is a discussion of Obama and Clinton. Obama's response on national TV to his support of his spiritual advisor is on topic. Obama's hypocrisy in discussing Don Imus flows naturally from this discussion. Above, Jon points out that the reaction to Obama's defense of his preacher would be different if Obama were a white man. My post showed how Obama might have responded to Imus if he had shown the same tolerance of the radio personality that he showed to his hate-mongering father-figure. There was no fitwa, no blasphemy, no cuss words. Nobody's religious idiosyncracy's were challenged. There was no personal attack on any participant.

What part of my post is "off-topic?" It is a *very* current event. Is this the face of the future at Islam Factor? I wasted several months of my life at WI, and I don't intend to make the same mistake here.

[Rhoda]

As for the picture of Clinton and Wright, who cares?

Does anyone else remember the picture of Mrs. Carter and John Wayne Gacy (Mass murderer of young boys)?

If you're a politician you must expect to have your picture taken with all sorts of unsavory sorts.